More Tough Decisons....

@TallFlyer right now you don't have any tough decisons, go to the interview because it never hurts. Who knows you might not like what you see or what they have to say, also they might not offer you a job. But I would go to the interview.

Agree. You may hate it, may find it's not all that; or they may hate you, or find you're not all that. All you'll gain or lose is some time.

So long as you present well, both in qualifications as well as personal, and don't have any personal or professional "baggage" and/or aren't persona non grata, officially or unofficially, at your current place of employment for any reason, then it should go fine.
 
As a TSA pilot. I vote for TSA or Compass.
So tell me about life at TSA, as I've got a collection of interview invites from them. I'm most concerned about its future in the current downsizing of 50 seat feed we find ourselves in, although I'd imagine they're cheaper than some other operators out there.
Allow me to unlurk for a moment...

As a G7 pilot, I vote TSA or Compass. At G7, you will be on reserve for seven months to a year and reserve is a fate worse than death here.
Aside from the obvious TSA vs G7 business, is there something other than reserve that makes you say that? Are some of those concerns about reserve mitigated by living in base? Is it any worse than the multitude of 8 hour sits I've already done in IAD?

<break>

I've got a few more thoughts than that, including a response to the "stay and upgrade" crowd, but I've just done a long three day and I'm going to bed.... More tomorrow.
 
So tell me about life at TSA, as I've got a collection of interview invites from them. I'm most concerned about its future in the current downsizing of 50 seat feed we find ourselves in, although I'd imagine they're cheaper than some other operators out there.

Aside from the obvious TSA vs G7 business, is there something other than reserve that makes you say that? Are some of those concerns about reserve mitigated by living in base? Is it any worse than the multitude of 8 hour sits I've already done in IAD?

<break>

I've got a few more thoughts than that, including a response to the "stay and upgrade" crowd, but I've just done a long three day and I'm going to bed.... More tomorrow.
Why do I feel like this is the Jetcareers version of the Truman show? Please tell us what time tomorrow.
 
Why do I feel like this is the Jetcareers version of the Truman show? Please tell us what time tomorrow.
I'm sorry, I forgot that you know not only everything about me and what's going on in my life, but also my current employer and therefore know exactly what I should do. Please, elaborate....

I'd love to be in a position to be seeking your wisdom about Compass, but unfortunately I'm not. There have been a rash of folks making lateral moves from other regionals to there, including pilots from my own employer, are you making fun of them too and also suggesting that any lateral move from a regional is a bad thing?
 
CJ,

Go to the interview. It will be good practice for when you can interview with a major. But do not make the lateral move when they offer you the job.
 
I had an opportunity when I was at Skyway to move to Mesaba. They were hiring experienced turbine SIC's to fly as "street captain" on the Saab 340 at Mesaba because no one had the time to upgrade, at the time.

Now if I had done that, chances are I'd still be at Mesaba intend of my 16th year at SouthernJets.

Lateral moves are doofus, unless, of course, you're facing unemployment.
 
Somehow I sincerely doubt you would still be at Mesaba since in 1999 and 2000 all you had to do was have a pulse and recognize a 737 on the ramp two out of three times to get hired by a major. Maybe instead of being at Southernjets for 16 years you would be there (or at some other major) for 14 years. Who knows? The only certainty is that you wouldn't still be at Mesaba.
 
I'm not a GoJet employee, and never have been, but I gotta say the term "GoJets" annoys the crap outta me. Why do people throw that "S" onto the name of the company?

That being said, you kids keep it safe out on the tarmac!

It's like shopping at Krogers or Walmarts.
 
I'm sorry, I forgot that you know not only everything about me and what's going on in my life, but also my current employer and therefore know exactly what I should do. Please, elaborate....

I'd love to be in a position to be seeking your wisdom about Compass, but unfortunately I'm not. There have been a rash of folks making lateral moves from other regionals to there, including pilots from my own employer, are you making fun of them too and also suggesting that any lateral move from a regional is a bad thing?
It was a joke lighten up. Make a decision, we've all had to. Plenty of good info in this thread already.
 
Last edited:
I'll lend you my ear. Give me one compelling reason why you would reach the front of the line at McDonalds, then walk out and go stand in line at a McDonalds two blocks away?

Leaving so quickly may mean something much, much deeper to HR at the next carrier you apply to because they're going to wonder why you were compelled to leave for no discernible advantage.

Or what's up at Carrier A that says "run for the hills"?
In short, our FO list is shrinking (down roughly 8% in the past 4 months). I'm still bottom 20% or so, still doing a lot of reserve, and in the past several weeks every time I've talked to crew scheduling they've been lamenting the shortage of FOs that they have to work with.

To compete with that there are a plethora of other airlines out there doing a lot of hiring. Aside from first year FO pay, they all pay more, and all offer the potential of more efficient schedules because of the nature of their flying (longer legs, etc).
You admit that you have an 'interesting' background in the 135 world and that you have at least another 4 years at the regionals (as a side note, when you listed the reasons does PRIA have anything to do with it? Because, even though something may not show up on a PRIA request after five years, the carrier can do a FOI request or just plainly ask you, 'Why did you leave such and such place? Was it on your own terms?'). I do think, that even with this 'interesting' background in the 135 world, you will be able to get to a career orientated destination. However, it will be VERY important that when you do, you have as much work history at the 121 world as possible at one carrier. Let me ask you this as well, did you interview at other places than CMT? Were you offered jobs there? If no, then why do YOU think that is? If so, why did you pick CMT? With all that said, the frank matter is that if you do get fired at a 121 place (even a regional) that closes a lot of doors. That coupled with your 'interesting' 135 background, more doors will be closed.
Definitely agree with the bolded. I know that either C5 or my next carrier (should I make a lateral) needs to be the next 4-5 years of my life, or at least until I've got a degree and some 121 PIC under my belt. I did interview at a few other other places and C5 was the door that opened for me.
Have guys from GoJets been hired at other places? Absolutely. Will guys from GoJets be hired in the future at places? Absolutely. But, the bottom line is that there are more guys who have moved on from TSA that are First Officers/Captains at 'career destination airlines' than there are from GoJets. I flew with four over two airlines, and three still had anti-GoJet stickers on their bags (two left TSA before GoJets even started, but felt the need to get that sticker on their bag to support their friends still there). Anyway, see how I am painting the picture? Why potentially expose yourself more so to a place with a crummy culture and more guys who vehemently want nothing to do with a pilot from that company?
I'm aware of the history. I also know it was a long time ago, and that vehemence has mellowed a bit. 4-5 years from now, who knows..... That said, it's still a risk and I get that. Not trying to minimize that. I've also got some personal reasons why an RDU base would work very well for me, but also know that that could change at any moment. But, if someone could promise me that I'd be in RDU for the next 5 years I'd just call it a done deal. But that promise can't be made.
If you must absolutely leave CMT under ANY circumstance, then I would look at a place like Mesa. They are another ALPA carrier and I think they are turning a corner culturally as well. Why is an ALPA carrier important? Well, if something does happen, they do a much better job of getting their member's jobs back than a place like GoJet. Once again, you really can't afford anything to happen.
Mesa has been on my list as well, but it seems they've just cancelled their Jan and Feb classes. And I do get the importance of ALPA. I know everyone likes to hate on ALPA for their own reasons, but I've also seen our MEC in action for certain guys when it counts. We've got some good guys here.
I know you haven't always laughed at my jokes. That is fine, I just thought I would offer my opinion on this. I do wish you the best and I do think you will be able to accomplish your goals. However, I would think long and hard about leaving the place you are at now. I certainly wouldn't do that for GoJets.
I've definitely thought long and hard. I could do on about some of the day to day issues, but as a former turboprop guy I'm sure you know all about them. We may be pretty far apart politically but on the airline stuff I think you're right on. PM me if you ever get an IAD overnight.
 
In short, our FO list is shrinking (down roughly 8% in the past 4 months). I'm still bottom 20% or so, still doing a lot of reserve, and in the past several weeks every time I've talked to crew scheduling they've been lamenting the shortage of FOs that they have to work with.

To compete with that there are a plethora of other airlines out there doing a lot of hiring. Aside from first year FO pay, they all pay more, and all offer the potential of more efficient schedules because of the nature of their flying (longer legs, etc).

Let me get my head wrapped around these details.

So you're bottom 20% and you want to go to being the absolute last guy on the seniority list at another airline? Please, walk me through how this is a good thing. Plus, what are you doing communicating with crew scheduling apart from calling in sick, or accepting a pairing? :) No more chatting with admin people, go fly.

The other airlines may pay more, yes, however, are you figuring the opportunity cost of chasing the dollar at what is largely a disposable job? You took the job knowing what it paid, I'd focus on building some flight time and moving up the food chain, personally.

The regional industry as we know it today will not be like it will in five years.

Spend less time talking to admin people about staffing and more time focusing on your logbook and long term career goals.

For the love of David Hasselhoff, Go…. FLY.
 
Let me get my head wrapped around these details.

So you're bottom 20% and you want to go to being the absolute last guy on the seniority list at another airline? Please, walk me through how this is a good thing.
It's not like I'm giving up much.
Plus, what are you doing communicating with crew scheduling apart from calling in sick, or accepting a pairing? :) No more chatting with admin people, go fly.
It's a company with 220 pilots and maybe half a dozen schedulers. Half of them know me by name. When I visit HQ I drop into their office and say hi. I choose to be, and am very deliberate about being polite and cheerful when I talk to them because they have an enormous about of control over my life, and maybe, just MAYBE that will benefit me later on.

Would that approach be beneficial at SouthernJets? I highly doubt it, but you also have contract provisions far and above what we have protecting your personal time.
The other airlines may pay more, yes, however, are you figuring the opportunity cost of chasing the dollar at what is largely a disposable job? You took the job knowing what it paid, I'd focus on building some flight time and moving up the food chain, personally.
There's also an opportunity cost in staying. Both, staying or going, are hard to quantify. If I had to guess though the jet regional, with more people leaving off the top, and more people interested in finding their equipment are going to see the faster movement. There's a former Capt from C5 that started at TSA in June. He's in a Feb upgrade class. If I made that move and doubled his upgrade time I'd be in the left seat there before I'd see it here.
The regional industry as we know it today will not be like it will in five years.
Here's hoping.
Spend less time talking to admin people about staffing and more time focusing on your logbook and long term career goals.
Eh, kinda think those are the same thing. I try and listen a lot more than I talk though, if you can believe that.
For the love of David Hasselhoff, Go…. FLY.
Been doing it.

Here's what I don't get: there are plenty of guys on here that have made lateral moves at the regional level. Granted, in a lot of cases it doesn't make sense. I had to seriously intervene in an 8 year ASA FO's thought process on another board when he was asking about lateraling to C5 for an upgrade. I'll concede in a lot of cases it doesn't make sense. But the facts as I see them, and as one of my current coworkers has agreed with on this thread, is that my current company is having difficulty staffing their flying to the point where movement is probably going to be impinged. Why is that so hard to believe?
 
...other airlines may pay more, yes, however, are you figuring the opportunity cost of chasing the dollar at what is largely a disposable job? You took the job knowing what it paid, I'd focus on building some flight time and moving up the food chain, personally.

@TallFlyer read this. It will serve you well. Odds are significantly against you out guessing the industry

The airline industry as we know it today will not be like it will in five years.

FTFY



For the love of David Hasselhoff, Go…. FLY.

Solid...
 
It's not like I'm giving up much.

It's a company with 220 pilots and maybe half a dozen schedulers. Half of them know me by name. When I visit HQ I drop into their office and say hi. I choose to be, and am very deliberate about being polite and cheerful when I talk to them because they have an enormous about of control over my life, and maybe, just MAYBE that will benefit me later on.

Would that approach be beneficial at SouthernJets? I highly doubt it, but you also have contract provisions far and above what we have protecting your personal time.

There's also an opportunity cost in staying. Both, staying or going, are hard to quantify. If I had to guess though the jet regional, with more people leaving off the top, and more people interested in finding their equipment are going to see the faster movement. There's a former Capt from C5 that started at TSA in June. He's in a Feb upgrade class. If I made that move and doubled his upgrade time I'd be in the left seat there before I'd see it here.

Here's hoping.

Eh, kinda think those are the same thing. I try and listen a lot more than I talk though, if you can believe that.

Been doing it.

Here's what I don't get: there are plenty of guys on here that have made lateral moves at the regional level. Granted, in a lot of cases it doesn't make sense. I had to seriously intervene in an 8 year ASA FO's thought process on another board when he was asking about lateraling to C5 for an upgrade. I'll concede in a lot of cases it doesn't make sense. But the facts as I see them, and as one of my current coworkers has agreed with on this thread, is that my current company is having difficulty staffing their flying to the point where movement is probably going to be impinged. Why is that so hard to believe?

tl;dr

Basically, stop worrying on these threads. Tame your future by learning from your past and focusing on learning the nuances of operations in 121.

The thing I noticed about most 1st year 121 folks is that they tend to focus the wrong things. They either take the fork of learning or they tend to repeat mistakes year after year and wonder why they carpet dance a lot.

Push the rope up the hill, or pull it. Your call.
 
Decisions to change jobs are, in my experience, very personal. I have changed jobs more than (I'd bet) just about any other pilot on JC. Sometimes the change was positive for myself and my family. (For example, had I not gone to AirTran and been subsequently furloughed by AirTran, I never would have met my wife enroute to a job interview a few months later)

Other changes were mistakes, but only when viewed through the lens of history. They made sense for a number of reasons when I made them. For example, in 2007 when USAirways offered my last-chance, take it or leave it recall I decided to stay at my corporate job, Airways was still in bankruptcy and with one of the worst contracts in the industry. Among other things, had I accepted recall I would have been in training when my son took his first steps.

In the airplane we make command decisions (or participate in those decisions) confidently and assuredly every day - and yet for everything else from careers, to money, to what car to buy we reach out to this community and others for advice. I'm terrible about this. I ask for advice on virtually every decision I make. I consider it "CRM for life". I insert the opinions of the participants of this forum among the information I receive from friends, colleagues, and family and use it to help make a decision confident that I have made the best possible decision. That said, At the end of the day fate is, after all, the hunter. (Thank you Cap'n Gann)

I am first to admit that I can be a wishy washy dork who spends hours Monday morning quarterbacking my own career. That said, despite all of my mistakes, a few triumphs, and a number of lateral and not-so-lateral moves, my life has been pretty good. I've still been able to afford houses, cars, and private school for the kid. (I'll leave boats and planes to folks who made better long term choices). So I really can't complain, can I?

Gather information from JC and elsewhere. There are users here who have made the same choices you have. You can learn from them. Then take that information and do what is best for you and your family today. Swim against the tide if need be. You will be ok. Some people will be luckier. Some will do worse. Fate is the hunter. One thing is guaranteed, it's gonna be a heck of a ride. Take a lot of pictures....and good luck!
 
@TallFlyer I have flown with you at least 2 or 3 times and we have this conversation every time we fly. Things for you here are only what they seem because you JUST started here. Bottom 20% of the FO seniority list? You JUST started here. We have all been there done that when we started here at C5. When I first got hired, we still had FO's making lateral moves so it's not like it's a new problem. I won't even lie I have been in your shoes a year ago, just ask @Seggy @Kingairer @Nark and @SmoothLanderJ . I thought the best decision for my career was to bounce from C5 with no turbine PIC time and go fly the E-Jet at Republic. Granted I was very hype on the thought and got the interview and subsequently offered the job, I had to make the decision which was to stay and I'm so glad I did for so many reasons.

Even after upgrading here, my quality of life is weirdly better than it was when I was a senior FO with 17-18 days off a month. Yes I sit reserve just like you but guess what when I don't get called, I sleep in my own bed almost every single night and that is worth its weight in gold! If I recall correctly, you live in base just like I do which is the absolute best thing you have going here for you! I saw you just finished a 3 day trip. Doesn't it feel nice to take that employee shuttle bus to your car and drive home? What happens when you go to Compass or G7 and they assign you a base that you didn't want, or you don't want to move to? Now you're commuting on reserve which....lets not get into that. When I was going through your situation, someone said to me...

"A bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush"....think about it a little more man.

Oh and by the way, you should really think of reserve as a good time to go back to school to finish your degree. Getting paid to sit in the crew room for 8 hours to work on classes? Yes please! At least that's what I'd do with my time. Make every second count and keep that hustle! Lost time does nothing for us.
 
Back
Top