Morbid curiosity. Upgrade times?
- Thread starter ZapBrannigan
- Start date
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
ATL 320, 737, and 717 Captain went to pilots with less than a year on property. Crazy times!
Baronman
Well-Known Member
I think nowadays with pay levels up where they are, there are tons of guys who are perfectly satisfied with FO pay and want to take advantage of the QOL that being somewhat senior in their seat affords them. At my shop those guys (seniorish FOs) overall do better than the bottom of the barrel CAs… which is the CA seat goes as jr as it does.
Comair 100ER
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Especially given what you can do with seniority. I have a friend around my seniority who is an FO and plays the system. If he were to upgrade or go to a WB FO, it’d be a drastic pay cut.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I have a couple friends on that bid that are currently very surprised new CAs (neither were anywhere near 2021 hires). Granted they will have to leave the 220 for the 320. Which is probably peasantry. We were all a few beers in and golfing when the news came in, which was entertaining.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
No!! At least at my shop, hell no!
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
I’m torn, if the upgrade stays this low it is tempting.
-Narrowbody CA: No weekends off. 10 years of reserve (in ATL. Maybe more). But the mo money more sooner would certainly help the early retirement equation. Plus I have another kid that will be starting school next year $$. Downside is that my kids are getting to the age where weekends can be important. Another downside is I doubt I’ll ever go fly a widebody in my career. Not a massive huge deal but certainly something that I’ve wanted to do. Just don’t see myself taking the pay cut once I’ve been making left seat pay.
-Narrowbody FO: After a few years of seniority the quality of life is quite good. Pay is pretty good too. Then I could ride it out to the 330 in NYC and do some widebody stuff. Could miss the upgrade boat though too. I’m a big fan of striking while the iron is hot.
-Narrowbody CA: No weekends off. 10 years of reserve (in ATL. Maybe more). But the mo money more sooner would certainly help the early retirement equation. Plus I have another kid that will be starting school next year $$. Downside is that my kids are getting to the age where weekends can be important. Another downside is I doubt I’ll ever go fly a widebody in my career. Not a massive huge deal but certainly something that I’ve wanted to do. Just don’t see myself taking the pay cut once I’ve been making left seat pay.
-Narrowbody FO: After a few years of seniority the quality of life is quite good. Pay is pretty good too. Then I could ride it out to the 330 in NYC and do some widebody stuff. Could miss the upgrade boat though too. I’m a big fan of striking while the iron is hot.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
You could just have more kids and try to get weekends off with them. I’m sure the older ones will understand Dad really wanted to hang in crew bunks and order desserts on a plane.
CFIT99
I'm probably commenting ironically...
Yup, after 10+ years of chasing pay and PIC…I’m gonna sit 320 FO till I hold 777/787 FO
roundout
VNAV monitor
I’m envious of the workload drop you’re about to experience going from DIY Air CA to AA FO. You’re going to think you’ve died and gone to heaven! “Pinch yourself”
CFIT99
I'm probably commenting ironically...
Throw in living in base….not sure what I’m gonna do with myself
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
I am very jealous.
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
I tried that sales pitch with the wife. She wasn’t having it. “Why would you want to go to Europe over making more money?”
Perhaps my dye is cast then ha.
poser765
Well-Known Member
So I don’t really want to start a whole new thread for this so I figured I’d just coat tails this one.
career progression. So I don’t know anything beyond the absolute basics of wide body flying… having never thought I’d be in a position where it would be an option. Now I am.Admittedly I’m still a new hire but the option is going to come up in a few years and I don’t have any idea how to approach it. So, what are some considerations when deciding between wide body FO or Narrow body CA?
then pay is a bit different… does base pay tell the whole story there? Is commuting easier for a 78 than a 73? lol what do I not know?
career progression. So I don’t know anything beyond the absolute basics of wide body flying… having never thought I’d be in a position where it would be an option. Now I am.Admittedly I’m still a new hire but the option is going to come up in a few years and I don’t have any idea how to approach it. So, what are some considerations when deciding between wide body FO or Narrow body CA?
then pay is a bit different… does base pay tell the whole story there? Is commuting easier for a 78 than a 73? lol what do I not know?
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Mid to senior WB FO vs junior NB captain depends on three things, as in most cases the pay is relatively similar (due to higher credit vs min guarantee on reserve).
First, how's your quality of life? 12 days off with a bad commute to go sit reserve with a bad set of work rules is very different than 12 days off sitting long call at him with a 20 minute drive to the airport. Maybe more diffucult is weighing commuting cross country to a set schedule with 17 days off vs. driving to reserve call outs 18 days a month.
Second, can you deal with large time zone shifts? WB flying tends to come standard with overnight flying. Some companies have a lot of that on the narrowbody side, so it may not matter which seat you are in so much in some cases.
And third, can you deal with old, annoying, racists, homophopic, and misogynistic captains? Sadly, as you get more senior in the right seat of of WB and able to hold the good trips, the captains you will be flying with tend to be more senior and older too. There are lots of older guys who are absolutely awesome. There are also a lot of them who aren't. Your patience with ignorance will often be severely tried. The good news is that normally you'll be augmented so you'll get a break from them when you are upfront with the other guy and when you go on your break.
Personally, with the type of flying we do, I'm much happier flying a 10 hour leg in the right seat and then getting 24 to 48 hours on the ground in an interesting place before flying home, than being the king in a NB jet getting 10 hour overnights after a full day's work.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
It's funny, I listened to your description of flying with these old codgers, and I said "yeah, much rather be a NB captain and not deal with all that." I guess that's the benefit of multiple fleets: you get to pick your poison. *cough* Southwest sucks *cough*
Doug Masters
Well-Known Member
I fairly recently made the transition from 757/767 FO to 320 CA. I live in base and don’t have (or plan on having) kids. I’m happy with the earlisih upgrade decision but also sometimes do miss the widebody flying.
I would suggest trying to do some international before you upgrade if it’s something you are at all interested in. Getting to see new cities and over the ocean flying is pretty cool. The drawbacks are lots of backside of the clock flying, I never really got used to starting work at 8pm and flying all night. Having a break was nice but I still had trouble with sleep and the time changes. The 757/767 fleet was nice because you could throw in some domestic if the international was wearing you down. That being said when I did months of only Europe I felt I was never really 100% on my days off. This obviously varies person to person.
The story about old curmudgeonly crews is also true, and could get a little old. Especially if they are disagreeable and had mentally retired 10 years ago. Helping someone that drives you insane limp across the Atlantic and back makes for a long few days.
I feel way less stressed going to work as a domestic captain. There is something to be said for not having to play chameleon 14 days a month. At about 80% and living 20 min from the airport I bid reserve with weekends off. This month I’m only going to have 3 nights away from home and make considerably more than I did as an FO. This compensation gap would be narrowed if it was compared to a true widebody like the 330/350.
Commuting is the big variable.WB FO schedules are almost exclusively commutable while my current seat is literally 0% commutable on both sides. Not living in base would take this pleasant upgrade experience and make it a living nightmare. The variety is what makes working for a major network carrier so great. I say give international a go and see how you like it. Then from there you can either upgrade quickly or vegitate in the right seat for the next 20 years. Neither Is a bad way to make a living.
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BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
This will be what drives me to upgrade into a NB fleet eventually if our widebody movement stops before I can switch seats.
We just had a vacancy come out today and when all is said and done I'll be about #50 out of 300 in the right seat and about 60 numbers away from holding the left seat (with a bunch of those guys in the never going to upgrade category).
It's going to be a close race as to whether I can wait for my number to come up or get fed up with the captains and go to the NB.