Morbid curiosity. Upgrade times?

[Screaming_Emu]

The constant yapping on 12345 about how only specially trained southwest pilots could manage to navigate the "C route" was amusing for about a day and then got old.

About that. One of the reasons I love oceanic flying is because of how quiet it is. You guys (pax carriers) are friggin annoying between the west coast and Hawaii. Too much talkies

 

[Screaming_Emu]

There's a bunch of them who could use a refresher on "VNAV for dummies". A few chapters from "Autothrottles for kids who can't read good" wouldn't hurt either.

Us too. The lower the level of understanding, the more unnecessary button pressing you see.

“ok, you’ve pressed all the buttons now and you’re still not getting what you want.”

I flew with a guy recently who would start to dial in a lower altitude and then press the altitude selector to release it from the cruise altitude, then continue spinning it down to the assigned altitude. He didn’t tell anyone he was doing it, and the plane kept leveling off at some intermediate altitude because he kept “re-cruising” it when he did it. I was absolutely baffled until I realized what he was doing. Now the VNAV page is part of my scan when verifying altitude changes.

 

[BobDDuck]

About that. One of the reasons I love oceanic flying is because of how quiet it is. You guys (pax carriers) are friggin annoying between the west coast and Hawaii. Too much talkies

We have our own (unofficial) freq for that kind of stuff. Fingers is for ride reports or help with relays due to SATCOM or HF issues. Otherwise... TO MUCH TALKING.

 

[GypsyPilot]

Us too. The lower the level of understanding, the more unnecessary button pressing you see.

“ok, you’ve pressed all the buttons now and you’re still not getting what you want.”

I flew with a guy recently who would start to dial in a lower altitude and then press the altitude selector to release it from the cruise altitude, then continue spinning it down to the assigned altitude. He didn’t tell anyone he was doing it, and the plane kept leveling off at some intermediate altitude because he kept “re-cruising” it when he did it. I was absolutely baffled until I realized what he was doing. Now the VNAV page is part of my scan when verifying altitude changes.

Yep, it’s crazy how badly some guys screw up VNAV, and just cannot get it through their thick skulls.

The biggest misunderstandings I see (for the Boeings) is VNAV PTH logic. Recently had a captain admonish me for not opening the speed window as we descended via an arrival. He absolutely insisted that it must be done that way. Of course that immediately takes the plane out of Path and into VNAV SPD, thus not protecting speeds and going out of PTH

Don’t even get me started on the stupidity I see with Autobrakes during MLGW landings.

What really baffles me is that they’ll screw up this stuff, and then totally blow it off after landing and don’t care to understand it.

Thank god I’m upgrading soon, this kind of crap just drives me insane after a few years.

Edit: Meant not protecting speed, not altitude.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The way I remember what speed intervention does, is that it's basically level change but honors altitude constraints (at least in our cheap common VNAV)

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

I have friends here. And I’m hardly the only former-pilot/non-pilot here.

I'm still breathless at you having friends.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I'm still breathless at you having friends.

Same.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Same.

Despite me being racist. And you being a huge ass and all of our online spats of late. I count you as a friend. You're • difficult and super annoying as hell. But I figure WTH, I deal with bipolars, sociopaths, schizophrenic and narcissistic high functioning autistic types like you at work for 12-16 hrs a day. Guess that I'm just used to dealing with entitled •. On and off the clock

 

[Gonzo]

Us too. The lower the level of understanding, the more unnecessary button pressing you see.

“ok, you’ve pressed all the buttons now and you’re still not getting what you want.”

I flew with a guy recently who would start to dial in a lower altitude and then press the altitude selector to release it from the cruise altitude, then continue spinning it down to the assigned altitude. He didn’t tell anyone he was doing it, and the plane kept leveling off at some intermediate altitude because he kept “re-cruising” it when he did it. I was absolutely baffled until I realized what he was doing. Now the VNAV page is part of my scan when verifying altitude changes.

Was he from the 767? You can do that in the 76 and it will not re-cruise the intermediate altitude.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Was he from the 767? You can do that in the 76 and it will not re-cruise the intermediate altitude.

Nope. New hire. Forget his background, but it wasn’t that.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Yep, it’s crazy how badly some guys screw up VNAV, and just cannot get it through their thick skulls.

The biggest misunderstandings I see (for the Boeings) is VNAV PTH logic. Recently had a captain admonish me for not opening the speed window as we descended via an arrival. He absolutely insisted that it must be done that way. Of course that immediately takes the plane out of Path and into VNAV SPD, thus not protecting speeds and going out of PTH

Don’t even get me started on the stupidity I see with Autobrakes during MLGW landings.

What really baffles me is that they’ll screw up this stuff, and then totally blow it off after landing and don’t care to understand it.

Thank god I’m upgrading soon, this kind of crap just drives me insane after a few years.

Edit: Meant not protecting speed, not altitude.

Yes to all of this.

“It’s a short runway so I’m gonna use auto brakes 2, max reverse.”

“Do what you want, but explain your logic please.”

 

[Screaming_Emu]

The way I remember what speed intervention does, is that it's basically level change but honors altitude constraints (at least in our cheap common VNAV)

I had a fantastic instructor who made us vocalize whether power or elevator were controlling speed or rate of descent. Makes me giggle when we are in VNAV/FLCH SPD and HOLD and we get slow because of bumps and a guy adds power.

 

[AA34]

I had a fantastic instructor who made us vocalize whether power or elevator were controlling speed or rate of descent. Makes me giggle when we are in VNAV/FLCH SPD and HOLD and we get slow because of bumps and a guy adds power.

Cessna guy here… can you explain this like I’m 5? Are you saying he was using power when should have been pitch to control the rate?

 

[GypsyPilot]

Cessna guy here… can you explain this like I’m 5? Are you saying he was using power when should have been pitch to control the rate?

It’s a way of describing how the various vertical autopilot modes work.

For example, in FLC (Flight Level Change) the airplane pitches for the set speed (“Speed on Elevator”).

In VNAV PTH, the airplane uses thrust to maintain the vertical profile (“Speed on Thrust”).

In V/S, the airplane is also “Speed on Thrust”. It’s really important to understand what the commanding logic is, otherwise people do stupid crap like pull speed brakes to slow down when in VNAV PTH (but there’s also a time and place to use speed brakes in PTH, but again you need to understand what’s happening).

 

[AA34]

It’s a way of describing how the various vertical autopilot modes work.

For example, in FLC (Flight Level Change) the airplane pitches for the set speed (“Speed on Elevator”).

In VNAV PTH, the airplane uses thrust to maintain the vertical profile (“Speed on Thrust”).

In V/S, the airplane is also “Speed on Thrust”. It’s really important to understand what the commanding logic is, otherwise people do stupid crap like pull speed brakes to slow down when in VNAV PTH (but there’s also a time and place to use speed brakes in PTH, but again you need to understand what’s happening).

Right on - thanks for the explanation.

I use FLC for climbs and V/S for descents and that’s about as advanced as it gets. Cool hearing what you guys do.

 

[L-16B]

Nerd.

Also regional, charter, CFI etc, other airline I don't care, I still think people flying around as Captain without much experience in the airframe is dumb. I know it happens...

Some of us did just fine upgrading in a plane we had never flown before. Because, training. And listening to highly qualified first officers. The horror….

 

[woodreau]

You guys are cute talkin about how tough your days in the CRJ were..

With your autopilot, FMS, glass, coffee maker, cockpit door, and lav... [emoji38]

my favorite part about trips like these is that even in crap weather, and having to fly instrument approaches to minimums on every leg…

you fly all 10 legs and shoot 10 instrument approaches without referring any approach plates or referring to any charts during the duty day.
you know all of the localizer frequencies, vor frequencies NDB frequencies, and courses from memory
you already know all the ATC frequencies the controllers will tell you to switch to by heart and you recognize every controller by voice.
and the controllers knew you by voice too. If they hear a new voice, we‘ll get a “new FO?” Query from ATC.

No fms to load, get the clearance on taxi out or just takeoff vFR and pick it up in the air

but my absolute favorite thing about trips like these is when you run into delays and despite all the delays, scheduling just pulls the “legal to start, legal to finish.” BS when you call to say you’re about to time out…. Or they just put more 91 flying on you after you time out….

 

[bLizZuE]

Some of us did just fine upgrading in a plane we had never flown before. Because, training. And listening to highly qualified first officers. The horror….

I flew with many new captains at Eagle on the CRJ that spent a long time on the ERJ and they would almost always say “you have way more experience in this airplane than me, please help” - and you know what, maybe I shared some tips and a few tricks, but overall they were fine.

There is nothing that should prevent anyone from upgrading to any airplane at anytime. We should all be ready for the left seat on day one. Will you be a better leader and a better pilot after more time? Sure.

Nobody is ever a good parent on their first child’s birthday. But everyone is good enough.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

It’s a way of describing how the various vertical autopilot modes work.

For example, in FLC (Flight Level Change) the airplane pitches for the set speed (“Speed on Elevator”).

In VNAV PTH, the airplane uses thrust to maintain the vertical profile (“Speed on Thrust”).

In V/S, the airplane is also “Speed on Thrust”. It’s really important to understand what the commanding logic is, otherwise people do stupid crap like pull speed brakes to slow down when in VNAV PTH (but there’s also a time and place to use speed brakes in PTH, but again you need to understand what’s happening).

Honeywell very helpfully called these modes what they are (SPD-T SPD-E) and pilots still screw it up.

 

[SFCC/UND]

Yes to all of this.

“It’s a short runway so I’m gonna use auto brakes 2, max reverse.”

“Do what you want, but explain your logic please.”

You guys don't have Brake Temps on your Aerordata?

Yep, it’s crazy how badly some guys screw up VNAV, and just cannot get it through their thick skulls.

The biggest misunderstandings I see (for the Boeings) is VNAV PTH logic. Recently had a captain admonish me for not opening the speed window as we descended via an arrival. He absolutely insisted that it must be done that way. Of course that immediately takes the plane out of Path and into VNAV SPD, thus not protecting speeds and going out of PTH

Don’t even get me started on the stupidity I see with Autobrakes during MLGW landings.

What really baffles me is that they’ll screw up this stuff, and then totally blow it off after landing and don’t care to understand it.

Thank god I’m upgrading soon, this kind of crap just drives me insane after a few years.

Edit: Meant not protecting speed, not altitude.

Funny how this isn't a problem on 74. Wonder if that's because of the nextgen box we have? Cause I know the classic box had some funky stuff from the 76 era.

At brown they just started showing estimated brake Temps on aerodata for landing. That helps not getting into the 5 temp range.