Morbid curiosity. Upgrade times?

Snuggle said:
Is that due to some vague language in the contract? Our day of assignment process is listed clearly just as I posted above. They get slight vagueness here when factoring in delays, but besides that It’s as described above.
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I mean, they can take a trip and break it up however they please. A 4 day trip can be broken into two 2-days, or a 3 day and 1 day. And now they can use a guy available for 1 to 3 days. Nothing prevents them from being creative.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
Not really, we're talking about pilots here. Have you met pilots before? I spent a 2 hr. flight to KPRC a few yrs back listening to my then CFI complain about how much smarter and how much better of a pilot he was than all the other CFI's in the company. Also how the owner who flies for WN, is a complete idiot. And how he could run the business better than him and be more profitable. Ran into him the other day at the airport, he saw me climbing into a Seneca.

Him: "You're getting your multi?"

Me: "Yeah, I went to a pilot mill, after we stopped flying together and got my ratings."

Him: "Congrats to your CFI, he must have had a lot of patience with you." (Laughter)

Me: :rolleyes:
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Did you end up not going to Michigan?
 
ZapBrannigan said:
No. I made my bed (several times) and now have to sleep in it.

But when there's one outlier where upgrade times are more than double everywhere else, I think applicants need to know about it... and perhaps more importantly unions need to take into consideration recruitment, retention, and lifetime earnings when negotiating contracts in an environment of very lengthy upgrades.
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Just a few years ago Southwest had 5 year upgrades while American, Delta, United were running 15+ year upgrades. Now, things are reversed. There's no "outlier" here. It's just that you happen to be on the wrong side of the market. Besides, isn't that what the 12 year pay scale is for?
 
QXDX said:
Just a few years ago Southwest had 5 year upgrades while American, Delta, United were running 15+ year upgrades. Now, things are reversed. There's no "outlier" here. It's just that you happen to be on the wrong side of the market. Besides, isn't that what the 12 year pay scale is for?
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The last time Southpest had a 5 year upgrade, the average member of this forum wasn’t even in the industry yet.
 
mikecweb said:
Does WN still have lance captains?
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Yes but for the most part they are more senior than the most junior actual line captains. Which makes sense, since they retain the benefits of being a senior FO ... bidding schedules and vacation, but can give those senior FO trips away and then pick up as a Captain.

Ordinarily I would say that program has drifted from its intended purpose and should be ended. (to have captain ready pilots standing by during periods when new airplane deliveries outpace the ability to train)

But the sad reality is that the Lance program is the grease that makes the open time system so lucrative here, allowing senior people to clear trips from their schedule to make it possible to bid open time. Those senior trips trickle down through trades and ELITT to a much lower seniority. Everyone benefits with the exception of the very junior FOs.

That said, to me It will always seem like a shady, elite club that is able to work outside the strictures of the seniority list though.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Yes but for the most part they are more senior than the most junior actual line captains. Which makes sense, since they retain the benefits of being a senior FO ... bidding schedules and vacation, but can give those senior FO trips away and then pick up as a Captain.

Ordinarily I would say that program has drifted from its intended purpose and should be ended. (to have captain ready pilots standing by during periods when new airplane deliveries outpace the ability to train)

But the sad reality is that the Lance program is the grease that makes the open time system so lucrative here, allowing senior people to clear trips from their schedule to make it possible to bid open time. Those senior trips trickle down through trades and ELITT to a much lower seniority. Everyone benefits with the exception of the very junior FOs.

That said, to me It will always seem like a shady, elite club that is able to work outside the strictures of the seniority list though.
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Lol so me the last 3 years...
 
To answer the question, at SouthernJets, I think it’s three years?

mikecweb said:
It's a paycut for most widebody FOs. Except maybe on the Fakebus.
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Don’t get me started on “I’m upgrading for a raise’ — it’s not the regionals.

I made more as a mid-seniority 330 FO than I did my first few years as a low seniority 320 captain and had more days off.

A decade as a mid- to high seniority widebody FO will earn more than a low seniority captain for the same.

I’m senior AF as a 320 captain now but (a) I’m lazy (b) the LCP gig pays way more (hourly) but I have less schedule flexibility
 
Derg said:
I made more as a mid-seniority 330 FO than I did my first few years as a low seniority 320 captain and had more days off.
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This is my exact situation right now. Compared paychecks with the guy a few numbers above me who is a NB airbus captain. He makes about $200 more a month than I do, and has 4 to 5 less days off. No thanks.
 
BobDDuck said:
This is my exact situation right now. Compared paychecks with the guy a few numbers above me who is a NB airbus captain. He makes about $200 more a month than I do, and has 4 to 5 less days off. No thanks.
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I have this conversation with my (non-training) first officers often.

If you like money and time off, 330/350.

If you love crappy layovers, long days, foraging for food, having people say “Welp, that’s your job NOW, son!” and the spouse asking “But I thought you upgraded? Where’s the money? AND you’re missing (event)?!” take the early captain bid.
 
Derg said:
I have this conversation with my (non-training) first officers often.

If you like money and time off, 330/350.

If you love crappy layovers, long days, foraging for food, having people say “Welp, that’s your job NOW, son!” and the spouse asking “But I thought you upgraded? Where’s the money? AND you’re missing (event)?!” take the early captain bid.
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Its nothing that taking all the green slips you can, won’t make up for…….. :)
 
Derg said:
To answer the question, at SouthernJets, I think it’s three years?


Don’t get me started on “I’m upgrading for a raise’ — it’s not the regionals.

I made more as a mid-seniority 330 FO than I did my first few years as a low seniority 320 captain and had more days off.

A decade as a mid- to high seniority widebody FO will earn more than a low seniority captain for the same.

I’m senior AF as a 320 captain now but (a) I’m lazy (b) the LCP gig pays way more (hourly) but I have less schedule flexibility
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See now you got me regretting my upgrade decision. Haha. Although I’ll be based at home in NYC.
 
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