Midwest: Nation's First "Virtual Airline"

Actually, Marcus, I can't answer that question in the form that you wrote it.

Here, I'll do this.

Trip777 said:
So you're telling me if you don't make it out of the regionals in 13 years you're going to thru in towel because basically a 100k RJ capt job isn't enough?
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Yes. That's exactly what my wife and I established when we made this career change. We established certain career benchmarks that we would meet or exceed. We also came to the agreement that if in future evaluation that it appeared we would not meet them, then it would require us to re-evaluate our future benchmarks and to evaluate different avenues for achieving the professional, financial, and emotional goals we established together as a family.
 
surreal1221 said:
Actually, Marcus, I can't answer that question in the form that you wrote it.

Here, I'll do this.



Yes. That's exactly what my wife and I established when we made this career change. We established certain career benchmarks that we would meet or exceed. We also came to the agreement that if in future evaluation that it appeared we would not meet them, then it would require us to re-evaluate our future benchmarks and to evaluate different avenues for achieving the professional, financial, and emotional goals we established together as a family.
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Doesn't make sense. What career are you going to switch to that will not require a pay cut? Seems silly to leave a decent paying 13 year career behind at 36 yrs old when you've accrued that much seniority because you haven't reached your professional benchmarks. I don't see how you will not lose money in the long run by making that decision.
 
Trip7 said:
So you're telling me if you don't make it to a major in 13 years you're going to thru in towel because basically a 100k RJ capt job isn't enough?
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That's the same vow I made when I started my career, except I set it at 12 years. It obviously worked out for me, but I wouldn't have hesitated leaving Pinnacle after 12 years if I was still stuck there. It's just not worth it. I could go into the family real estate/property management business and make more money, even during the downturn.
 
Trip7 said:
Doesn't make sense. What career are you going to switch to that will not require a pay cut? Seems silly to leave a decent paying 13 year career behind at 36 yrs old when you've accrued that much seniority because you haven't reached your professional benchmarks. I don't see how you will not lose money in the long run by making that decision.
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You know what Marcus, I can't even begin to ask you to understand.

But, one word should achieve what I'm trying to project.

Standards.

Standards for my career, standards for my life and lifestyle, standards for my family, standards for our quality of life and what I want for my children. Some of those qualities I can not expect you to understand, so I won't even bother.

This year I'm already projected to make 3x's 2nd year pay at ASA in my current position. I'm really not too worried about you thinking I'm not going to regain, if not surpass, my 13 year pay as a CRJ200 Captain if/when I throw in the towel.

You worry about yourself, and I'll worry about my own professional progression. Deal?
 
Trip7 said:
The system is fine. Its the people chasing the American Dream (aka Debt) that have nothing but themselves to blame. If you live within your means, save at least some of your income, and invest in real assets, no reason anyone shouldn't be able to join the top 1% How many people have car payments? Thats money down the drain on a depreciating asset that could be invested. But peeps gotta keep up with the rat race yo.....
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If that were true, no one would be able to get into this field unless they were born rich. You're either gonna have to take out some debt to finance school or you're gonna have to get a well paying job to pay as you go. I have a car not because I'm trying to "keep up with the rat race yo." I have one b/c there's no public transportation to get me to and from work. If you've got a suggestion that will allow me to dump my car, then I'm all for it, man. It's paid for (both of them), but I'd much rather do the public transportation thing than pay for gas and up keep on it.
 
Trip7 said:
The system is fine. Its the people chasing the American Dream (aka Debt) that have nothing but themselves to blame. If you live within your means, save at least some of your income, and invest in real assets, no reason anyone shouldn't be able to join the top 1% How many people have car payments? Thats money down the drain on a depreciating asset that could be invested. But peeps gotta keep up with the rat race yo.....
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I don't know how I missed this little gem, but you've clearly missed the point of me providing that statement.

No matter what a person's income level, unless they're in that top 1%, their purchasing power has decreased over the previous two to three decades. That goes for the hood rat mommas and the middle class white folk living above their means.

No matter where they're "living," certain necessities cost far more comparatively as a percentage of annual income than they did two to three decades ago not because of the raw price of the goods but due to the decreasing amount of annual income while prices continued to increase in the marketplace.

ATN_Pilot said:
Knowing Surreal, I don't think he would ever tell someone to live above their means. I believe his point is that everyone's "means," except those in the top 1%, are shrinking. An air line pilot shouldn't have to worry about not having a car payment. A car payment on a BMW should be a drop in the bucket compared to his monthly earnings. Sadly, our earnings have continued to fall over and over again, and you amazingly seem to be ok with that. Honestly, I love ya Marcus, but I don't understand your perspective at all.
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At least I know that a few people are able to relate the statement I made in the proper context in which it was made. Rather than delving into some unrelated rant concerning people living above their means and getting into more debt than they can handle. Keep up the rat race YO!
 
surreal1221 said:
You know what Marcus, I can't even begin to ask you to understand.

But, one word should achieve what I'm trying to project.

Standards.

Standards for my career, standards for my life and lifestyle, standards for my family, standards for our quality of life and what I want for my children. Some of those qualities I can not expect you to understand, so I won't even bother.

This year I'm already projected to make 3x's 2nd year pay at ASA in my current position. I'm really not too worried about you thinking I'm not going to regain, if not surpass, my 13 year pay as a CRJ200 Captain if/when I throw in the towel.

You worry about yourself, and I'll worry about my own professional progression. Deal?
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Nice politician's answer. You could have said you would have retired financially free and it would have be a better answer the the above. Surpassing any FO pay immediately is relatively easy. Surpassing 13 year Capt pay is.

How bout we leave it at I'll believe it when I see it?
 
surreal1221 said:
You know what Marcus, I can't even begin to ask you to understand.

But, one word should achieve what I'm trying to project.

Standards.

Standards for my career, standards for my life and lifestyle, standards for my family, standards for our quality of life and what I want for my children. Some of those qualities I can not expect you to understand, so I won't even bother.

This year I'm already projected to make 3x's 2nd year pay at ASA in my current position. I'm really not too worried about you thinking I'm not going to regain, if not surpass, my 13 year pay as a CRJ200 Captain if/when I throw in the towel.

You worry about yourself, and I'll worry about my own professional progression. Deal?
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3X your current airline pay sounds pretty good. I take it you'll be turning down recall since it will be such a big pay hit, or will you still be able to make this other income on the side while flying?
 
wheelsup said:
Surreal what are you doing now for work?
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I manage a territory in east central Georgia and into parts of Alabama (from the suburbs of Tyrone and Palmetto down to LaGrange Georgia, and into Lanett Alabama) for the nation's largest home improvement retailer specializing in replacement roofing, siding, windows, gutters and leaf protection, and attic insulation products. The company I work for offers installation services for the previously mentioned products and it's part of my job to provide project consultations to customers who need these services taken care of. Quite enjoyable actually. But it's the hardest I've worked in my life, and our QOL is taking a hit because of the requirements of the job. I work out of my home office and out of my two stores within the area roughly 55-70 hours a week. So, in a nutshell, I'm in retail sales.

mwflyer said:
3X your current airline pay sounds pretty good. I take it you'll be turning down recall since it will be such a big pay hit, or will you still be able to make this other income on the side while flying?
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No, I won't be turning down a recall. My current position isn't viewed as a long term career to me. We plan on living off of whatever my flying salary would have been, while saving any extra income. If that makes sense. No, unfortunately, due to the requirements of this job it wouldn't be practical for me to work on a part-time basis. If one doesn't have the 55-70 hours a week to commit to the business one just can not be successful or get the work completed. Which is a shame, because I'd love to be able to do this type of work on a part-time basis but it's just not practical.

Trip7 said:
BTW 3x ASA 2nd year pay is $103,500....
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Actually, for me, as a -200 FO, it would have been around $94,500.

Trip7 said:
Nice politician's answer. You could have said you would have retired financially free and it would have be a better answer the the above. Surpassing any FO pay immediately is relatively easy. Surpassing 13 year Capt pay is.

How bout we leave it at I'll believe it when I see it?
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Thanks?

Better is a subjective term.

Thirteen year -200 Captain pay is in the mid 80's. While I don't expect to be furloughed for more than two or three years, the amount of money we will be saving during those three years in my current position will easily provide us with a worry free financial situation IF in thirteen years we decide to get out of the airline game.

But it really is maintaining the standards we set when we made this career change. I thought you'd be able to understand that, but you call it a politician's answer so I suppose I was wrong.

Believe it when you see it, sure, that sounds wonderful. Til then though, you do you and I'll do me. Isn't that how it's said?
 
Disclaimer: Not intent to flame anyone just adding my .02 cents to the discussion.

I'm guessing Trip7 that you would ultimately like to retire on the left side of the Trip7 as opposed to the left side of an RJ. If that is so, in the same manner, each person has set a goal for themselves as part of this career prior to entering or making the switch over. Some people have or will decide to stick out in the regionals due to the QOL that they have now and not wanting to start all over somewhere else on the bottom. To others, they know that going somewhere else will ultimately mean a better QOL for their family or themselves. I think both are fine depending on your own description of what QOL is. Ultimately control what you can and if there's things out of your control, don't stress about it.

*If any of this has been said before or I totally misread everything in the previous posts, please disregard and my sincere apologies.*
 
kellwolf said:
If that were true, no one would be able to get into this field unless they were born rich. You're either gonna have to take out some debt to finance school or you're gonna have to get a well paying job to pay as you go. I have a car not because I'm trying to "keep up with the rat race yo." I have one b/c there's no public transportation to get me to and from work. If you've got a suggestion that will allow me to dump my car, then I'm all for it, man. It's paid for (both of them), but I'd much rather do the public transportation thing than pay for gas and up keep on it.
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There is good debt as well as bad debt. Going into debt for school is for the most part good debt. Obviously one will make many times over in their career what they paid for schooling. Doing anything but buying a car cash is one of the worst investments someone can make. You giving up future income(which is not guaranteed) for a depreciating asset.

ross9238 said:
Disclaimer: Not intent to flame anyone just adding my .02 cents to the discussion.

I'm guessing Trip7 that you would ultimately like to retire on the left side of the Trip7 as opposed to the left side of an RJ. If that is so, in the same manner, each person has set a goal for themselves as part of this career prior to entering or making the switch over. Some people have or will decide to stick out in the regionals due to the QOL that they have now and not wanting to start all over somewhere else on the bottom. To others, they know that going somewhere else will ultimately mean a better QOL for their family or themselves. I think both are fine depending on your own description of what QOL is. Ultimately control what you can and if there's things out of your control, don't stress about it.

*If any of this has been said before or I totally misread everything in the previous posts, please disregard and my sincere apologies.*
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Yes ultimately I would like to retire left seat B989 at a major. However if for some reason I end up in ATL for ASA for the rest of my career I wouldn't shed a tear and would be completely satisfied professionally and financially. Brad Holt, our COO, has been at a regional his whole career. He currently makes over 600k. How many DAL B777 Capts top that?
 
Trip7 said:
Brad Holt, our COO, has been at a regional his whole career. He currently makes over 600k. How many DAL B777 Capts top that?
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Yes, you can get far in your career you're willing to sell your soul to become management and screw over the "little people" for the rest of your life. :cool:
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Yes, you can get far in your career you're willing to sell your soul to become management and screw over the "little people" for the rest of your life. :cool:
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The weird thing is, Brad is management, but he still relates to the pilots. This man did everything in his power to prevent furloughing pilots. If it was up to the BOD 140 pilots would have been axed last October. Has the ASA MEC discussed the new ASA management with you yet?
 
Trip7 said:
The weird thing is, Brad is management, but he still relates to the pilots. This man did everything in his power to prevent furloughing pilots. If it was up to the BOD 140 pilots would have been axed last October. Has the ASA MEC discussed the new ASA management with you yet?
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I haven't discussed him with the ASA MEC, but I know that he spent roughly 25 years at Skywest and still holds his seniority number there (something you should worry about), and was not very favorable towards unions.
 
Trip7 said:
Yes ultimately I would like to retire left seat B989 at a major. However if for some reason I end up in ATL for ASA for the rest of my career I wouldn't shed a tear and would be completely satisfied professionally and financially. Brad Holt, our COO, has been at a regional his whole career. He currently makes over 600k. How many DAL B777 Capts top that?
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That is also a good professional aspiration as well.
 
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