Midwest divorces SkyWest; more funding from RAH

Let's not forget SAT-SMF twice a day on the EMB-145 for ExpressJet "mainline." Westbound in the winter, that leg would take nearly four and a half hours. I need to check my logbook for my longest flight in the ERJ... I think the record is 5:17 for YYT-EWR.
 
FlyChicaga said:
Let's not forget SAT-SMF twice a day on the EMB-145 for ExpressJet "mainline." Westbound in the winter, that leg would take nearly four and a half hours. I need to check my logbook for my longest flight in the ERJ... I think the record is 5:17 for YYT-EWR.
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Ahhh yeah, the good old days. People actually liked that flight too (yes, they were happy to not stop in LAX, SFO, DEN, PHX, DFW, or IAH). I deadheaded on it several times and found it fine. Memory foam and XM radio FTW. I did IAH-YYZ last sunday and had flashbacks.

LAX-ACA is the lognest route in the history of XE, perhaps in the history of the EMB-145 at 1,440 NM. I never did that one, but it was a day trip blocked at 7:59 for LAX pilots from what I understand.

My record is 6:45 EWR-XNA. Of course, a large chunk of that time was spent in the amelia.
 
Unsure of my longest, I know it's been well over 4hrs and maybe into the 5's. Do that twice and you could be in Europe or Japan.
 
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Velocipede said:
Looks like more and more pilots will have to plan on a career on Regional wages.
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That's true, unless via a hand reaching down, in a kind manner, they can get help bringing their wages and work rules up to the respective manner.

That will require help of ALL mainline pilots, working together with the regional pilots to bring up the wages and QoL.
 
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Polar742 said:
That's true, unless via a hand reaching down, in a kind manner, they can get help bringing their wages and work rules up to the respective manner.

That will require help of ALL mainline pilots, working together with the regional pilots to bring up the wages and QoL.
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I'd LOVE to see this happen, but I know here at my airline the senior guys are all "I really don't care what happens as long as I still get my 17 days off and a paycheck." So, I have to wonder how much of that mentality is around at the mainline carriers as well. I think the hardest thing to overcome would be motivating pilots that have "made it" to really give a flip about the guys at the regionals. You can use the outsourcing reason to try to drive it home, but most mainline guys I've talked to have the "it won't happen to us" mentality. I'm sure the guys at Midwest never thought their airline would become, essentially, Orbitz or Travelocity selling seats on a regional carrier.

Everytime I fly BOS-MEM in the -200, I'm wondering "What happened to the DC-9 that used to do this route?" Someone asked me when Compass first started if we were seeing a lot of routes dropping off our schedules. I told them "Nope, but talk to the DC-9 guys at mainline. I'm seeing a lot of Compass planes on their old routes."
 
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The regional career is for some people.

Especially those that were hired during the 35 or 40 with no plans to ever move on.

Great, good job guys. Enjoy your maxed out 125k a year and your 17 days off. . . at least with line bidding - who knows what you'll have when PBS comes on property, maybe more perhaps less.

Anyway - as for the younger guys who won't be happy with their lifetime career earnings at a maxed out level of 125k for flying a heavy CRJ around. . .well. . .we shouldn't be content on the bottom level wages. We should be doing everything in our power to make our time at a regional as beneficial as possible, both in terms of wages and QOL enhancements. Not only for ourselves, but for whoever ends up following our footsteps years down the road.
 
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surreal1221 said:
The regional career is for some people.

Especially those that were hired during the 35 or 40 with no plans to ever move on.

Great, good job guys. Enjoy your maxed out 125k a year and your 17 days off. . . at least with line bidding - who knows what you'll have when PBS comes on property, maybe more perhaps less.

Anyway - as for the younger guys who won't be happy with their lifetime career earnings at a maxed out level of 125k for flying a heavy CRJ around. . .well. . .we shouldn't be content on the bottom level wages. We should be doing everything in our power to make our time at a regional as beneficial as possible, both in terms of wages and QOL enhancements. Not only for ourselves, but for whoever ends up following our footsteps years down the road.
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Quick question:
Why wouldn't regional pilots being banding together to get pay and work rules more in-line with legacy carriers at this point (with the direction the industry is going ala Midwest/RAH)? Also, it's clear that given the state of the industry - with such quick upgrades over the last few years - many will be stuck with Regional flying simply because they won't be able to afford dropping down to basic legacy FO payrates. Why not nip at that problem now, rather than everyone griping about it 3 years(pulled from the air) from now when legacies are hiring heavy and the only folks able to take the jobs are the 1 to 4 year regional FOs?
 
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ladder360 said:
Quick question:
Why wouldn't regional pilots being banding together to get pay and work rules more in-line with legacy carriers at this point (with the direction the industry is going ala Midwest/RAH)? Also, it's clear that given the state of the industry - with such quick upgrades over the last few years - many will be stuck with Regional flying simply because they won't be able to afford dropping down to basic legacy FO payrates. Why not nip at that problem now, rather than everyone griping about it 3 years(pulled from the air) from now when legacies are hiring heavy and the only folks able to take the jobs are the 1 to 4 year regional FOs?
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Because pilots eat their young and while we love to DISCUSS solidarity, nobody really gives a crap about it.
 
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jtrain609 said:
Because pilots eat their young and while we love to DISCUSS solidarity, nobody really gives a crap about it.
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Emphasis added.

Nobody? You sure? ;)

ladder360 said:
Why wouldn't regional pilots being banding together to get pay and work rules more in-line with legacy carriers at this point (with the direction the industry is going ala Midwest/RAH)? Also, it's clear that given the state of the industry - with such quick upgrades over the last few years - many will be stuck with Regional flying simply because they won't be able to afford dropping down to basic legacy FO payrates. Why not nip at that problem now, rather than everyone griping about it 3 years(pulled from the air) from now when legacies are hiring heavy and the only folks able to take the jobs are the 1 to 4 year regional FOs?
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Not really sure of what the question is with your first question mark. Are you asking why regional pilots haven't banded together to achieve pay and work rules on par with their legacy partners?

If that's the question, it really comes down to the equipment we're flying and the notion that since we're not flying 76+/100+ seat aircraft that we're not as worthy as those who do fly those types of equipment. It gets back to the founding system of establishing pay depending on the size and range of an aircraft. When the regional industry began, CRJs were truly regional aircraft (aka, sub 300nm stage lengths). Now with the future looking more towards more national stage segments, regional pilot groups are waking up to the fact that they've been short changed for far too long. We really won't know what the future holds until the next gang of section 6 negotiations begin in less than a year.

That said, at least within ALPA, there is a national Fee-For-Departure committee that is working on establishing whipsaw protections and equitable pay rates within each company so that
"labor costs" can no longer be used by our mainline corporate rats to ship flying from one company to the next every year.

Well, as far as the second question. It somewhat relates to the dumping the 230/mo crashpad thread.

If you can't afford to make the transition, then don't do it. Otherwise you're going to be one of those people crying that you can't afford your financial obligations because you dropped from your 70k a year CRJ-200 Captain job to a 45K a year 767ER FO job.

If you want to make the transition then please for the life of everyone else's sanity, plan accordingly.
 
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Your boys going to bring the cup to the Western conference tonight right? Lord knows you've had enough chances to seal the deal.
 
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I'm fairly certain that they will, but who knows. By the time you hit game 7 it's anybody's cup ya know?
 
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surreal1221 said:
Not really sure of what the question is with your first question mark. Are you asking why regional pilots haven't banded together to achieve pay and work rules on par with their legacy partners?

If that's the question, it really comes down to the equipment we're flying and the notion that since we're not flying 76+/100+ seat aircraft that we're not as worthy as those who do fly those types of equipment. It gets back to the founding system of establishing pay depending on the size and range of an aircraft. When the regional industry began, CRJs were truly regional aircraft (aka, sub 300nm stage lengths). Now with the future looking more towards more national stage segments, regional pilot groups are waking up to the fact that they've been short changed for far too long. We really won't know what the future holds until the next gang of section 6 negotiations begin in less than a year.
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Yeah, that was the question - apparently my proofreading skills failed me.

As for your response - that's what I imagined was the case.

surreal1221 said:
That said, at least within ALPA, there is a national Fee-For-Departure committee that is working on establishing whipsaw protections and equitable pay rates within each company so that
"labor costs" can no longer be used by our mainline corporate rats to ship flying from one company to the next every year.

Well, as far as the second question. It somewhat relates to the dumping the 230/mo crashpad thread.

If you can't afford to make the transition, then don't do it. Otherwise you're going to be one of those people crying that you can't afford your financial obligations because you dropped from your 70k a year CRJ-200 Captain job to a 45K a year 767ER FO job.

If you want to make the transition then please for the life of everyone else's sanity, plan accordingly.
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Very true. Problem isn't entirely financial though. An argument could certainly be made for regional flight crew having inferiority issues based on the present system - like you said, there's "the notion that since we're not flying 76+/100+ seat aircraft that we're not as worthy as those who do fly those types of equipment." That's not good for the companies, the industry or the profession.

One thing I've noticed is that guys like to throw around the the SJS thing liberally around here. When pay is based upon size of the equipment, isn't SJS kind of natural?
 
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surreal1221 said:
When the regional industry began, CRJs were truly regional aircraft (aka, sub 300nm stage lengths).
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Ummm, okaayyy.......yeeaaah Peeeetter.....I'm going to go ahead and say, uh, Noooo. Ummm, the, uh, reee-gionals are just a polishing of the commuter turd, Ooooo Kay? And I'm going to make sure you have a copy of that memo....

I will submit that the "RJ" label stuck from Ski-doo's marketing campaign of the stretched Lear tube.

Well, as far as the second question. It somewhat relates to the dumping the 230/mo crashpad thread.

If you can't afford to make the transition, then don't do it. Otherwise you're going to be one of those people crying that you can't afford your financial obligations because you dropped from your 70k a year CRJ-200 Captain job to a 45K a year 767ER FO job.

If you want to make the transition then please for the life of everyone else's sanity, plan accordingly.
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You're on a roll, Josh.

Ladder360,
Back this out to a macro scale. Apply it in various threads. Read most of the posts from that view. It explains alot.
 
To read things from the eastern half of the U.S., it makes it sound like Midwest kicked Skywest to the curb.

To read the Salt Lake papers, it sounds like just the opposite.

A little bit of spin, anyone?
 
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