Mid-Air Intercept by ICE

  • Thread starter Thread starter GX
  • Start date Start date
I understand that but 1. what is "my" duty if my vehicle is the one being searched and 2. What is my recourse to damage done from a search that turns up nothing?

In the scenario i have given where the vehicle has been locked 'before' the search was conducted and 'before' probable cause was determined, do i have any duty to aid in the search (such as give up the keys)?
 
dbrault17 said:
I understand that but 1. what is "my" duty if my vehicle is the one being searched and 2. What is my recourse to damage done from a search that turns up nothing?

In the scenario i have given where the vehicle has been locked 'before' the search was conducted and 'before' probable cause was determined, do i have any duty to aid in the search (such as give up the keys)?
Click to expand...

You don't have any duty to do anything. If its before PC is determined, you have the choice to give consent (if requested) or not give consent. If after PC is determined, you still don't have to aid in the search (if you're not actively impeding it in some way), but the search will commence after access is gained in some way.

If it turns up nothing, and there was PC gained for a search....and this is my opinion only......if you know there's nothing there and the search is going to happen due to there being PC, why not do everything to attempt to mitigate damage that would occur? IE- if I had the keys, why not give them up (again, this is AFTER PC has been attained), because the search is going to happen anyway. Because it's happening anyway, if something is found....then damage to the vehicle will be the lesser of your concerns. And if nothing is found, then you helped prevent damage to your own property in a situation where the search was going to happen, one way or another.
 
Pretty sure i would freak out if a german shepherd jumped up in my face. I was mauled by one when i was younger. Almost took my arm. I have nerve damage on my forearm from it. I love em but scared to death of dogs today! I try not taking walks in neighborhoods or close to house fences for fear of a dog running at me. I was chased down by one not too long ago. I swear i never ran faster on my life! I wasnt even winded after it all happened which really surprised me for how fat i am. Police with dogs scare me just as much and I give alot of room to officers with them. The stomach bottoming out, cold sweats, freezing with an sudden impulse to run all happen at the same time when when i see a dog.
 
.

An Example of "Probable Cause"

Dumb-Drunk-guy.jpg
 
you can get charged with a crime by simply failing to follow an officer's "lawful" request. If they have PC and you still refuse to give them key I would wager to guess they may just remove them your pockets after you are cuffed and detained for officer safey. If they fine nothing great, then you are free to challenge the whole thing court. If they do find something then you could be bigger trouble but your attorney could still challange PC. If the judge agrees they didn't have PC then anything they found is tossed out as fruit of the poisoned tree and not admissable.

In my experience with the law the vast majority are professional and courterous if you extend the same to them. I personally even gotten out of tickets by simply be courteous and showing concern for officer saftey and they said that is why I was getting a written or verbal warning instead of the ticket.

for you guys having repeated problems with bad cops you must be the most unlucky folks on the face of the planet or it is something you are doing to provoke the responses you are receiving.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
you can get charged with a crime by simply failing to follow an officer's "lawful" request. If they have PC and you still refuse to give them key I would wager to guess they may just remove them your pockets after you are cuffed and detained for officer safey. If they fine nothing great, then you are free to challenge the whole thing court. If they do find something then you could be bigger trouble but your attorney could still challange PC. If the judge agrees they didn't have PC then anything they found is tossed out as fruit of the poisoned tree and not admissable.
Click to expand...

Correct, with the rare exceptions of the inevitability rule or good faith doctrine, if they are determined to apply.

In my experience with the law the vast majority are professional and courterous if you extend the same to them.
Click to expand...

Thats what I find. Sure, there is the rare jerk, or even the person having a bad day; but even then, courtesy thats only one way, can easily make it two-way.

for you guys having repeated problems with bad cops you must be the most unlucky folks on the face of the planet or it is something you are doing to provoke the responses you are receiving.
Click to expand...

I do have to wonder the same thing.....with some of the people who have been giving multiple extreme examples of constant run-ins with the police.
 
I'm still trying to find a news article on this, but there were 2 choppers and a ton of cops at PWA the other night. They busted some guys in a plane running drugs. I couldn't help but laugh when I heard about it. The line guys working that night had no clue what was happening. They thought it was an Air Evac helicopter that wasn't paying attention to their hand signals. That was until they noticed several guys running at them with automatic weapons. I'll try to find the story.
 
Mike, you should be teaching at FLETC:cool:.

I think most officers try to be courteous and professional, but given the right situation can be drawn into what I call "contempt of COP". I know when I was a young deputy "back in the day" I always made up my mind if I was giving a ticket or not, before I got out of the car. Some folks managed to change my mind with a failure of the attitude test, and ba'boom "contempt of COP"

Beyond what Mike is saying, searches on the border and within several miles of the border are a different breed, and that applies to both directions at a port of entry. The same rules don't necessarily apply, especially if you bust the border. Like Mike said we always tried to be careful while searching vehicles, until something was found, then all bets are off.:aghast:
 
If you give a peace officer who claims to have probable cause to search your vehicle your keys, if later the peace officer cannot adequately articulate the probable cause to the satisfaction of the judge it may be argued by the state that it doesn't matter, you expressly consented to the search by providing the keys and unlocking the door. Kind of ridiculous but there are states and counties in this country whose courts pretty much rubber stamp anything the police do or want, so I think it would be prudent if you give your keys so that the police do not have to damage your door or lock to search that you tell them that you giving them the keys doesn't indicate that you consent to anything.

Remember, unless you are the victim of a crime or accident the police are not there to help you. There is almost nothing you can say to a police officer that is investigating you that will help you. I have a philosophy of "polite non-cooperation" with regards to police officers. I respect the job they do, and am friendly but unless they want to talk about the weather, <insert sports team here>, or putting the flaps up in the flare (I dont think that is illegal yet) then I politely feign ignorance or simply don't answer:

Officer pulls me over, "Do you know how fast you were going?"
Me: "No, sir!" (although I know exactly how fast I was going, I am not about to confess to it.)
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
. I have a philosophy of "polite non-cooperation" with regards to police officers. I respect the job they do, and am friendly but unless they want to talk about the weather, <insert sports team here>, or putting the flaps up in the flare (I dont think that is illegal yet) then I politely feign ignorance or simply don't answer:

Officer pulls me over, "Do you know how fast you were going?"
Me: "No, sir!" (although I know exactly how fast I was going, I am not about to confess to it.)
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with "polite non-cooperation". You're certainly within your right to not consent, just remember this though. If the officer gets a warrant and you remain "politely non-cooperative", your vehicle will probably be damaged and the chance of getting any relief goes down dramatically. On the other hand, If your talking a border search, as I said before....... all bets are off.
 
BillErvin said:
"No Sir" would probably be a better response....... refer back to my "attitude test"..............Just Saying!!
Click to expand...
Isn't that lying to a law enforcement officer? Unless of course you don't know how fast you were going in which case it's inattentive driving.
 
Well, the shotgun in my back was definitely the "wrong place, wrong time". But the escalation of force was so rapid I barely had time to think of my own name.

The officer that cuffed me for doing 31 in a 30 was fired for that. Well, he had a pattern of that. Coming down a somewhat steep hill in a 35, the speed limit changed to 30 at the bottom. To make 30 at the bottom meant some moderate braking, heavier braking if you had a load or trailer. The city had just formed their own PD after deciding they could do it better than the Sheriff. Some young, overzealous cops were terminated that first year.

The officers who tailed me for miles only to red light me once I parked at the grocery store (and unholstered and pointed their pistols at me when I unthinkingly stuck my hands in my down vest on that cold night) had been informed I was dealing cocaine. Ok, they had PC but it wasn't cleared up until the next week. It was the minor sister of a ex-GF who told them that. It was pure revenge.

Having a firearm pointed at you during a risky stop is no fun. The last example involved a couple of Barney Fifes. That small town had just incorporated and they too formed a brand new PD. These guys were brand new from POST and unsupervised in the field.
 
Richard5, try looking at things from the police side of things and judge it from what is known to the officer at the time. He probably waited to pull you over in an area that was more to his tactical advantage and just about any officer would draw if a drug suspect reached into his vest. As the officer you have no idea what the subject is reaching for.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top