Mesa to merge with ACA

Yeah I guess I am not trying to be rich, but of course I DO want to make a decent living.

I changed airlines in 2000 (left Mesa) and I guess it was a smart move, since I am now getting captains pay in a regional jet, and things are looking pretty good here!

Of course I still have the dream of flying for a "major" but where I am now is not a bad place to be while waiting.
 
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That sounds like a pretty good deal for you. How would your seniority be integrated with Comair?

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I've got mixed emotions. If the LCC comes through as planned, I'd rather stay with ACA.

If we are sold to Comair, nothing is definite. Rumor has it that we might keep our seniority dates.

Comair has been asked for concessions, including a new pay scale for smaller airplanes. (I heard this from several Comair pilots). Right now, if we went to Comair, we'd make the same pay that their CRJ guys do, which would be a huge pay raise for us.

There is also a speculation that there would be a bid for all Dojet pilots if the sale happened. If you could hold a UAL side seat, then you could bid for it. If not, you would be sold to Comair, but placed on an ACA furloughee callback list. FOr me, this would be the best option. Get paid now, and have the option to go back to ACA later.
 
The plot thickens.... Looks like Sir Richard Branson may be about to enter from stage left.

I've also heard rumors, as yet undocumented, that ACA has firm orders for 8 737-800s. I was told that this was in the Washington Post but havn't found it on their website. If true, the increase in debt would make ACA substantially less attractive for JO and Mesa.
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Atlantic Coast Shares Go Up as Sales Talk Goes On
Mesa Air Group Offered to Buy Regional Airline, and Virgin Atlantic May Also Be Interested
By Keith L. Alexander and Amy Joyce
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, October 8, 2003; Page E01


Shares of Dulles-based Atlantic Coast Airlines Holdings Inc. continued to climb yesterday as investors anticipated the airline would be sold, whether to Mesa Air Group Inc. or some other acquirer.



"The market thinks the company is in play and somebody else may come along and force Mesa to up its bid," said Benchmark Co. airline analyst Helane Becker.

On Monday, Phoenix-based Mesa offered $512 million in stock for Atlantic Coast, which dominates Terminal A at Dulles International Airport, in a deal that would create the nation's largest regional airline company. Based on Mesa and Atlantic Coast's closing stock prices Friday, the offer was about $11.30 a share, a 25 percent premium from Friday's price. Shares of Atlantic Coast climbed 83 cents yesterday to $11.88, up 7.5 percent. Shares of Mesa closed at $12.25, up 69 cents or nearly 6 percent.

Meanwhile, industry sources said billionaire Richard Branson, founder of London's Virgin Atlantic Airways, has shown interest in investing in Atlantic Coast and helping the airline maintain its independence.

Branson has long suggested that he wants to start a low-cost airline in the United States. This summer Atlantic Coast, which has 142 planes and serves 84 destinations, said it planned to sever its 14-year relationship as a United Airlines regional carrier and transform itself into an independent low-fare carrier by late spring.

Because of U.S. foreign ownership rules, Virgin would not be able to own more than 25 percent of the voting control of Atlantic Coast or 49 percent of its equity. A relationship between Atlantic Coast and Virgin would make the local airline the nation's only low-fare operation with an international tie.

A spokeswoman for Virgin Atlantic said the airline was not interested but declined to comment on whether Virgin USA, a U.S. unit created to explore the start-up of a low-cost carrier, might be.

In a conference call with airline analysts and investors, Mesa chief executive Jonathan G. Ornstein said that after several telephone conversations with Atlantic Coast shareholders, he is increasingly optimistic that they favor Mesa's bid.

Ornstein said that if Atlantic Coast's management decides to fight the bid, Mesa is prepared to take its proposal directly to shareholders for a vote. "It's the least attractive option, but it is one we would pursue," he said.

Atlantic Coast spokesman Rick DeLisi declined to comment on whether the airline had received bids from other carriers or investors. Instead, DeLisi said that Mesa's bid was "under active" consideration by its board and that the airline was continuing its normal operations as well as its planning to become a low-fare airline.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58830-2003Oct7.html
 
I think Ornstein should come onto JC for an online live Q&A with the members here.......
 
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I think Ornstein should come onto JC for an online live Q&A with the members here.......

[/ QUOTE ] They're trying to get him to participate on Mesa/ACA lounge. He does participate in the Mesa yahoo group.
 
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Our union reps are also pointing out that Mesa and UAL are the only parties that would benefit from the takeover

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Yeah, and a couple of people who have been involved in the aviation industry for the last 30 years said that this has United's fingerprints all over it.
 
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Yeah, and a couple of people who have been involved in the aviation industry for the last 30 years said that this has United's fingerprints all over it.

[/ QUOTE ] It does make perfect sense. What better way to get back at ACA?
 
It's not "getting back at ACA" so much as getting out of ACA what they wanted in the first place: continued regional feed at lower rates. But yeah, I'm sure they're whispering in various peoples' ears about this.

I imagine ACA's investors will go for it; after all, a bird in the hand (UAL) is always better than two in the bush (the whole LCC venture). Ornstein is different from most greedy bastards in that unlike Bill Gates, he doesn't have to have ALL the money, just good cash flow. Hate him if you must, but he's a shrewd cookie.
 
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Hate him if you must, but he's a shrewd cookie.

[/ QUOTE ] Very true, but he's a few other things as well:
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"Jonny O was good for quite a bit of case law.....

Jonathan Garrett Ornstein, 51 S.E.C. 135, 140 (1992) (applicant failed to cooperate where he did not respond to correspondence from the National Association of Securities Dealers ("NASD"), refused and did not claim certified mail from the NASD, failed to timely notify the NASD of a new mailing address, and promised but failed to return telephone calls from NASD staff). See also Wedbush Securities, Inc. (f/k/a Wedbush Noble, Cooke, Inc.), 48 S.E.C. 963, 971-72 (1988); Gold v. SEC, 48 F.3d at 992-93.

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Jonathan Garrett Ornstein, 51 S.E.C. 135, 137 (1992).[ credibility determinations of the initial decision-maker when such determinations are based on hearing the witnesses’ testimony and observing their demeanor]

(translation--case law established that the SEC need not limit enforcement when someone "games" the system and then lies about it)

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1999 Regional Airline Association Annual Meeting
Jonathan Ornstein received a teamwork award from Professional Pilot magazine. A leader in the regional industry, Ornstein is president and CEO of Mesa Airlines of Phoenix and chairman of Brussels-based Virgin Express

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9.11 Blog: 9.20.01
Mesa Airlines CEO Jonathan Ornstein:"Why the hell are airlines still serving food when money could be spent instead on making sure passengers are safe?"

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In 1978 Ornstein dropped out of the University of Pennsylvania after his junior year, drove to Los Angeles and, at age 21, became the youngest-ever broker at E.F. Hutton. But in nine years he bounced around five firms, getting fired from some. Why? A lengthy disciplinary record charging unauthorized trading, misrepresentation, document alteration and churning. Eventually, Ornstein was fined $20,000 and suspended as a broker for three years.

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Can a leopard change its spots?
Can Ornstein genuinely put his first career behind him? Ornstein does the best he can to explain his sorry record. "I was just too young," he says. "My problem was that when a client lost money, I felt so bad that I would do anything to try and make it back for him."
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Taken from mesalounge
 
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Ornstein is different from most greedy bastards in that unlike Bill Gates, he doesn't have to have ALL the money, just good cash flow. Hate him if you must, but he's a shrewd cookie.

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You got that right Aloft.

He hasn't always pleased the pilot group but the shareholders seem to have confidence in him.
 
Read this thread earlier and talked to one of my Comair pilot friends.

He said that he finds it unlikely that Delta /Comair would buy the "dorks" as they appreciate fleet commonality and wouldn't want to have to take on the cost of training pilots for more then one type of plane which is why they are a one plane fleet.

Anyways he said it not me just wanted to share....


Everett
 
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Sounds like the pilots should become the shareholders.

[/ QUOTE ]That didn't work out so well for the pilot-owners of United. Personally, I think it's best not to own stock in the company you work for; you've already got plenty of risk exposure through your job. I can't imagine what it'd be like to lose both job and retirement savings, a la Enron. (Speaking of which, there's an article at Fortune.com on the stunts--I'd call it outright investor fraud, but that's just me--that Enron's CFO pulled there. Really solidifies my disdain for anybody with an MBA.)
 
I kinda like my SWA stock. Profitsharing is your friend.
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I kinda like my SWA stock. Profitsharing is your friend.
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It's just like any other tool. You can use it for good or evil. For example, a friend of mine got a bunch of options when he worked at PSINet. Know how much he got out of them? Zip. Just like the folks at Enron, WorldCom/MCI, and yeah, United.

The thing about company stock is that you're kind of really putting a bunch of eggs in one basket. If you get cash that your company puts into a retirement account for you which you can invest in a variety of options, including company stock, then the best option NO MATTER HOW MUCH CONFIDENCE YOU HAVE IN YOUR COMPANY is to invest it in something other than company stock.

The odds are that if things get bad, you'll be in a world of hurt. Your company stock will decrease in value, and you may lose your job.
 
That is the reason why SWA won't let you invest in company stock as part of your 401K. They know most of their employees would, and if things did go south (like 9/11) then a lot of people would be hurt. I managed to get several shares when it was down around $10/share earlier this year. Great for me, bad for the people that bought in around 2000 when it was around $28/share.
 
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That didn't work out so well for the pilot-owners of United

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Actually, the actual concept of the United ESOP worked smashingly... The problem was, when the deal was worked out, the union groups were promised that, at the end of the "purchase plan" they were promised that their pay would return to the pre-ESOP levels. When it came to pay the piper, however, United was on one of those downward oscillations that all airlines go through.

So long as the Mesa ESOP isn't structured such that they rob Peter to pay Paul, it would most likely GROSSLY improve QOL at Mesa (so long as the Mesa pilots don't go pounding down the door for a 20.5% pay increase all at once).

That being said, it will likely never happen. The old concept of keeping your prisoners too hungry to revolt. Mesa pilots don't get paid enough to be able to foot the bill for the required majority stock buyout.

P.
 
Mesa has a stock plan. I don't know what exactly an ESOP is, but I put $50 a paycheck in to Mesa stock - through SSB (Soloman Smith Barney)

I waited till it hit 12 to sell some a little while ago. Anyone know how I figure out what to pay taxes on?

I mean how do you figure out what you paid for it? The stock was anywhere from 5 to 9 1/2 while I worked there.
 
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said that he finds it unlikely that Delta /Comair would buy the "dorks" as they appreciate fleet commonality and wouldn't want to have to take on the cost of training pilots for more then one type of plane which is why they are a one plane fleet.



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I've been talking to a lot of Comair people on the crew bus and, while they say that they don't want the FRJs, they have been saying that they are being asked to take them. Several have told me that they have been asked to approve a pay scale for smaller aircraft. (I believe that now they only have a pay scale for aircraft with something like 70 or fewer seats.)

As to the training question, that may be why the rumors have the FRJ pilots going with the airplanes.

I do have some ACA stock, but it is a small part of my small portfolio. I agree that having a large position while working for a company would be putting all my eggs in one basket. In general, I try to buy stocks and funds that are totally unrelated to the aviation industry.

As to taxes, I am pretty sure that you only pay taxes on the capital gain from the sale of stock. My recommendation is to give all your 1099s and what-not to a CPA and let him figger it out.
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As to taxes, I am pretty sure that you only pay taxes on the capital gain from the sale of stock. My recommendation is to give all your 1099s and what-not to a CPA and let him figger it out.
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My recollection of this is a little fuzzy -- it's been years since my tax accounting class -- but you're right. And you also pay, I believe, 20 percent on the cap gains since they are long term (held over one year). And it's the gains only, so make sure you take out the initial purchase price from what you declare.

See a professional to be sure, though. My tax accounting class was back in the early 1990s.
 
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