Man Dragged off United Flight

etflies said:
"Rule 21 Refusal of Transport
UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:

[*]Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions – Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported."
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Having last minute deadheads is not an act of God or any of the above
 
The other three pax had no problem leaving the plane, using their own legs and not making a scene. What's this guy's excuse? Yes, it sucks, and luckily it doesn't happen often, but kicking off four pax vs. leaving how many stranded because planes didn't have crew? It's doubtful they made the wrong choice.

Still better than flying nonrev. I'd rather be in that situation getting vouchers for not getting on a flight instead having to get super creative to get home because a nice and open flight suddenly wasn't. Some things just aren't worth stressing over. If you needed to be somewhere so urgently, I'm sure the flight crew or other pax would work with you to stay on the flight. It's all about not acting like a five year old.
 
etflies said:
"Including, but not limited to..."

Means they can apply these terms however they see fit, really.

Sucky deal for passengers, but nevertheless, there it is.
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It also says "whenever such action is necessary or advisable". This was neither necessary or advisable.
 
NovemberEcho said:
It also says "whenever such action is necessary or advisable". This was neither necessary or advisable.
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"By reason of weather or conditions beyond UA's control..." and it goes on to list reasons and qualifiers that state "not limited to." That, in my opinion, still means United can decide whether or not this was necessary and/or advisable.

But, I suppose the definition of "necessary" and "advisable" and whether or not this was "beyond UA's control" would come into play. Necessary/advisable to position a crew for downline flights to maintain the integrity of the operation? I can see arguments on both sides. United would say yes, the traveling public would probably say no. So who gets to make that call? I sure couldn't tell you the answer to that. That's for the lawyers to argue if/when this goes to court. Beyond United's control? I guess that depends on the circumstances that led to a crew needing to be positioned.


***Disclaimer: I am not now, nor have I ever been a lawyer, so I'm probably talking out of regions whereupon the sun does not shine.***
 
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See, I'm viewing this as:

UA bought off passengers for the oversold situation. Fixed.

Last minute, a regional needs to get peeps to SDF because they don't have anyone in position to take a flight out the next day.

So UA offers to buy 4 more peeps off the flight. No one volunteers. Problem not fixed.

UA has to now remove passengers, based on check in time, to accompany flight crew. Situation worsens.

As a regional CA, and I would've said and done (yes I did it once) as an FO, "don't ask for volunteers. If there's no seats, there's no seats. That's not our problem to solve. We'll get there when we get there, or they'll figure something else out."

Before you light the torches, what would've been worse? The crew not getting to SDF to take out the AM flight (which lets be honest, they would've just delayed to let the crew that flew this flight in get legal rest and DH another crew in to take out this crews "original" flight, whenever that was), or all the negative press associated with this event?
 
B767 said:
I know you know a lot, because you've been in the industry a while...

:sarcasm:

They wouldn't have been stranded. It would've been worked out to get those pax out of SDF, albeit a few hours late.
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And if it's that dire, somebody buy this guy a globe because ORD-SDF is a 5 hour drive at most.
 
I remember Len Morgan writing about a similar circumstance. The airline canceled the flight, and after everyone deplaned, they wound up departing as an extra-section with a closer head count.
 
NovemberEcho said:
This is clearly a conspiracy where United orchestrated this to take the heat off Delta for the IT issues.
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God love ya @Seggy!

35913293.jpg
 
B767 said:
As a regional CA, and I would've said and done (yes I did it once) as an FO, "don't ask for volunteers. If there's no seats, there's no seats. That's not our problem to solve. We'll get there when we get there, or they'll figure something else out."

Before you light the torches, what would've been worse? The crew not getting to SDF to take out the AM flight (which lets be honest, they would've just delayed to let the crew that flew this flight in get legal rest and DH another crew in to take out this crews "original" flight, whenever that was), or all the negative press associated with this event?
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Story time.

I actually had a scenario a few years ago that I will never ever forget. The inbound jet to pick our crew up in OMA and DH us to DTW was late and one of the F/As and I wanted to enjoy the nice free breakfast buffet, they had a pancake machine, fresh berries, etc., so I coordinated with the company to move the van time back. They approved.

Well the inbound DH jet made up an incredible amount of time en route. When we left the hotel, they were already pulling into the gate to do a 50-seater quick turn. No matter; five minutes to the airport and I told the F/O and FAs to head on up to the gate and I'll stop by the ticket counter and tell them to radio up to the gate that we'll be up in a minute. No problemo.

We got there and boarding was complete. But it had been oversold and one passenger was getting a check for $1200 (not a voucher, a check) for denied boarding. The agent saw us four show up and said I can't get you on. I said, sorry we're late to show up but we checked in online last night and either way we have to get on, we're operating three flights out of DTW when we get there, and there is no one else to do them out there. She said too bad, and went down to close up.

The jet slowwwwly departed the gate, come to find out later that the captain was getting OE from the check airman in the right seat and they also had a fed on the jumpseat for the line check. So things were understandably slow and deliberate.

I sat down and got on the phone with my company (who I must give credit for, never once in seven years had a hold que to talk to anyone). They somehow ran this situation up the chain of command through mainline and back down to the DH company real fast, because the CRJ pulled into the runup pad at OMA's 32L and then I wondered...no way...it can't be what I think it is.

Yes, way. A few minutes later they gate returned to toss four passengers off and get us on.

Problem was, during that transaction, DTW went into a groundstop that never lifted the rest of the afternoon...crazy thunderstorms en route. So whereas they would have gotten off the ground before the groundstop went into effect, they deplaned all 50 people and the flight was canceled a few hours later. Their two additional flights were also canceled.

My crew's three flights were also canceled.

And a deadheading crew that was already on board also had two legs out of DTW canceled.

Seven canceled flights because the agent didn't believe me when I said we were positive-space-must-rides.

Ah, outsourcing.
 
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