Malaysian 777 Plane Crashes in Ukraine

jskibo said:
Completely safe! Nothing to worry about!

Just in case, I'll leave this here........ Where I'm at, should you need it.......

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Perfectly safe......no worries :)


@SteveC should anything happen you get my crockpot and Guinness stein
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Man, now I'm so conflicted!

Aw, safe journeys buddy - I can get a stein for myself if I ever turn into a Guiness quaffer.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
It's easy to say "something needs to be done," but the reality is that there isn't really anything that can be done that doesn't involve war and more death. Are you willing to send someone off to die to protect wreckage?
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As much as "something needs to be done" - to who? The impression that I get from monitoring many different news sources is that Putin probably knows that separatists did that. Watching his reaction, I think that he lost control over them. I he admits that he lost control over separatists and the whole Ukrainian situation, someone (US) will want to take control of it. We all know what happens to a county when US is getting involved in it's internal disagreements.
 
russian girl said:
The impression that I get from monitoring many different news sources is that Putin probably knows that separatists did that. Watching his reaction, I think that he lost control over them.
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Agreed. Putin had no intention of downing an airliner. He just has some separatists that are useful to him that he keeps armed, and they went too far. Now he has a mess to clean up while trying to keep as much distance as possible. People calling for extreme sanctions or even military intervention are barking up the wrong tree. Screwing with Russia will screw up the European economy, which will screw up our economy. It's not worth costing those economies trillions of dollars just to appear tough and say that we've "done something."
 
russian girl said:
As much as "something needs to be done" - to who? The impression that I get from monitoring many different news sources is that Putin probably knows that separatists did that. Watching his reaction, I think that he lost control over them. I he admits that he lost control over separatists and the whole Ukrainian situation, someone (US) will want to take control of it. We all know what happens to a county when US is getting involved in it's internal disagreements.
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Let's be blunt. For all the talk of how something has to be done, what happened when Russian tanks rolled into Georgia in 08? Nothing. Why? Because nobody wants to start a war with a nuclear power unless that nuclear power is DIRECTLY threatening them.

I hate to sound callous, but Ukraine is not a country the United States will enter a war to protect nor should it be one. There is no vital national security interest in protecting them.

There are probably some discussions we won't read about until 30 years later going on right now. There, diplomats from Russia, Ukraine, the United States, the Netherlands, and Australia are working on a way for Putin to somewhat gracefully extricate himself from the unintended consequences of arming the rebels with sophisticated equipment they weren't properly trained to use.

The rebels will likely be sold down the river by Putin because the price of continuing to support them just went to a level where he's not willing to pay it anymore.
 
RDoug said:
Oh, he's willing. That's what makes him so dangerous.
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You guys need to stop making Putin more than he is. He isn't some evil mastermind out of a James Bond film. The guy is nothing but a power hungry politician who's willing to go a bit further than your typical power hungry politician to hold on to his power. That means he's willing to kill off former KGB agents who are causing him problems, or kill off journalists who don't paint him in a favorable light, or even arm rebels who might see to it that he gets a little more territory to control without him getting his hands dirty. But it doesn't mean that he's a crazed psychopath who wants to invade Europe or blow airliners out of the sky. That's counterproductive to what his real goal is (holding on to power).

The problem with neo-cons and warmongers in general is that they always think their opponent is some evil movie villain with designs on taking over the world, when our opponents in the real world are generally far more simple and easy to understand. Taking a moment to think things through and try to understand your adversaries instead of letting your machismo control you would be well advised.
 
You're totally misreading my response, and I'm very realistic as to who Putin is and what dangers he represents. In no way am I advocating for U.S. military intervention, but this guy really is quite capable and willing to ride this out rather than reverse course. If you don't think so, then you haven't been paying attention to this guy over the years. Even his country's most powerful billionaires aren't safe if they cross this guy, and that's not Bondian hyperbole.
 
Sorry, but BS. Putin would go to the ends of the earth to protect the Moscow billionaire's club, because they're the ones who protect him and his perch of power. And that's really all that matters to him.
 
RDoug said:
Oh, he's willing. That's what makes him so dangerous.
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Disagree. When the oligarchs who keep him in power start to feel the pinch in their wallets, they'll let him know. The sanctions put in place were chosen so their impact on the people who keep Putin in power is much greater than the impact they will have on the average Russian.

What's the first thing a dictator wants to do? Maintain power. Putin's not stupid. He knows if he does something that hurts his power base financially, it's going to make it more difficult to maintain power.

He'll find a way to extricate himself from this mess because it will help him stay in control.
 
In my uneducated opinion this article http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/...to-dump-the-ukrainian-separatists/503828.html describes situation in Russia pretty accurately. I do believe that "pro-russian separatist" brought the plane down on their own, without direction from Putin. I am not sure if it was an "identification error" on their part or it was one of those situations " let's see what happens if we push this red button". People died,and someone has to pay for that. How do you make the separatist pay for that?

Full disclosure: I grew up in Russia and now live in US, of all people, I was raised by an aircraft accident investigator and a diplomat.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I don't know poop about Putin, and neither do you. The one thing I know is that this thread got a lil jolt of Frankenstein once some random IP showed up and attached "girl" to its name. The old tricks work the best! So to speak.
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Katya.png
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