Lowers but raised dues?

[ClarkGriswold]

The truth of the matter is, a lot of business gets conducted after meetings over drinks. That's when the politics gets done and the deals get cut to get things done. That's why most MECs allow expensing of drinks (within reason) .

I cant put my finger on why but that just sounds bad to me. At the same time, I understand what you are saying but to think some of the stuff negotiated for our careers while having a couple PBRs or a Schlitz is slightly troubling. So we're clear, I understand your point and know it is a common business practice but it just sounds off. Glad there is policy regarding it.

 

[derg]

Proactive engagement!

If we're managements friend... Hrm....


Sent from my Colecovision Adam

 

[SrFnFly227]

The truth of the matter is, a lot of business gets conducted after meetings over drinks. That's when the politics gets done and the deals get cut to get things done. That's why most MECs allow expensing of drinks (within reason).

I have a problem with this. The dues collected out of membership paychecks goes to pay for the meeting. If the meeting isn't where the "deals get cut" then why are there meetings? If the reps can't "get things done" during the time they are supposed to, then it shouldn't be up to membership to pay for drinks at the after party.

 

[jtrain609]

I have a problem with this. The dues collected out of membership paychecks goes to pay for the meeting. If the meeting isn't where the "deals get cut" then why are there meetings? If the reps can't "get things done" during the time they are supposed to, then it shouldn't be up to membership to pay for drinks at the after party.

This is how ALL business gets done in EVERY industry.

I'm not saying ALPA MEC's should or should not allow guys to expense drinks, but I AM saying that business gets done after hours. Formality is for formality's sake; you get the real work done behind the scenes.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I have a problem with this. The dues collected out of membership paychecks goes to pay for the meeting. If the meeting isn't where the "deals get cut" then why are there meetings? If the reps can't "get things done" during the time they are supposed to, then it shouldn't be up to membership to pay for drinks at the after party.

You've never been engaged in any sort of politics (institutional, corporate, or public), have you?

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

None of the volunteer organizations with which I am affiliated pay for alcohol while on business. At our SHRM Leadership conference they give us a 1 hour happy hour. Then, on the night of the banquet they serve 2 glasses of wine. That is it. I don't know what ALPA does.

For you I hope it's a 32oz wine glass! I have a few. 8). Doc says I can have 1 glass a day.

 

[BobDDuck]

Yes, on the extra dime now provided by us!

Is Spirit one of the cost positive properties? I know prior to their new contract they were not.

 

[roundout]

I expense things as meetings/snacks quite regularly. So does just about every rep at every MEC. Where is the "scandal" in that?

The scandal is that the itemized receipt came public and the "snacks" they tried to expense were about $600 in irish car bombs and mich ultras.

So they got caught in this instance...how many times haven't they been caught?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I have a problem with this. The dues collected out of membership paychecks goes to pay for the meeting. If the meeting isn't where the "deals get cut" then why are there meetings? If the reps can't "get things done" during the time they are supposed to, then it shouldn't be up to membership to pay for drinks at the after party.

As others have mentioned, that's just politics. Do you think the business of the United States Senate actually gets done on the floor? Of course not! It gets done in the back hallways and offices, and even more commonly, it gets done after hours at the cocktail parties, fundraisers, and private dinners. The floor sessions are just where the politicians go to give the speeches that they want on the record, and to record their official votes. The politics and deal making gets done over drinks at a cocktail party. That's the real world. Expecting it to be done any differently is just naive and unrealistic.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

The scandal is that the itemized receipt came public and the "snacks" they tried to expense were about $600 in irish car bombs and mich ultras.

So they got caught in this instance...how many times haven't they been caught?

What do you mean by "caught?" I still don't see the problem. What business was being conducted over these drinks? Was this drinks after an MEC meeting, or something similar? If so, I'm sure a lot more got done over those $600 worth of drinks than would ever get done over four days of meetings (which costs thousands upon thousands, by the way). Human nature ensures that official meetings usually devolve into speakers' lists that are pages long, with representative after representative bloviating endlessly just to hear themselves talk, with no one ever actually listening to what anyone else has to say, and only spending their time thinking about what their "clever" retort is going to be. Over drinks, the bloviating usually ceases, and things actually get done. Again, I'm sorry if that bothers people, but it's just how the sausage gets made. And it works. Quite well, actually.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Is Spirit one of the cost positive properties? I know prior to their new contract they were not.

Yes, Spirit pilots will see an effective dues increase under the new policy.

 

[roundout]

What do you mean by "caught?" I still don't see the problem. What business was being conducted over these drinks? Was this drinks after an MEC meeting, or something similar? If so, I'm sure a lot more got done over those $600 worth of drinks than would ever get done over four days of meetings (which costs thousands upon thousands, by the way). Human nature ensures that official meetings usually devolve into speakers' lists that are pages long, with representative after representative bloviating endlessly just to hear themselves talk, with no one ever actually listening to what anyone else has to say, and only spending their time thinking about what their "clever" retort is going to be. Over drinks, the bloviating usually ceases, and things actually get done. Again, I'm sorry if that bothers people, but it's just how the sausage gets made. And it works. Quite well, actually.

If it was ok, they wouldn't have to list it as "snacks"on their expense reports.

 

[BobDDuck]

Yes, Spirit pilots will see an effective dues increase under the new policy.

That's not what I meant. None of the regionals actually contribute positively to ALPA. We are all subsidized by Delta, United, FedEx etc. I'd thought that under Spirit's old contract their budget was large than what they collected via dues but I didn't know if that was still the case under their new contract payrates and soft time.

 

[dasleben]

Hey, at least ALPA isn't using the 1.90% to send out mass "Vote Obama" mailers. Go IBT.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

If it was ok, they wouldn't have to list it as "snacks"on their expense reports.

You should get your facts straight before you go around attacking people. The reason that it's listed as "snacks" is because there are only a dozen or so expense categories in the expense program that we use to report our expenses. You have to put every expense into one of those categories. The only category that even remotely makes sense is meetings/snacks, so that's what we have to use. If there was a category for after-meeting drinks, I'd be happy to report it that way, but there is no such category. They aren't trying to hide anything, they're just correctly reporting their expenses as they've been told to do.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

That's not what I meant. None of the regionals actually contribute positively to ALPA. We are all subsidized by Delta, United, FedEx etc. I'd thought that under Spirit's old contract their budget was large than what they collected via dues but I didn't know if that was still the case under their new contract payrates and soft time.

Ahh, gotcha. A quick glance at the latest budget reports seems to indicate that they are now self-sustaining. They're a very frugal MEC, so they don't spend a whole lot of money on meetings and such.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Hey, at least ALPA isn't using the 1.90% to send out mass "Vote Obama" mailers. Go IBT.

How is it that the only thing you praise ALPA for is also the only thing that I criticize ALPA for?

 

[roundout]

You should get your facts straight before you go around attacking people. The reason that it's listed as "snacks" is because there are only a dozen or so expense categories in the expense program that we use to report our expenses. You have to put every expense into one of those categories. The only category that even remotely makes sense is meetings/snacks, so that's what we have to use. If there was a category for after-meeting drinks, I'd be happy to report it that way, but there is no such category. They aren't trying to hide anything, they're just correctly reporting their expenses as they've been told to do.

There is an e-mail from HW to GV which was leaked in which HW told him they had Late night snacks which they were able to eat them the next day.

 

[HRDiva]

Ahh, gotcha. A quick glance at the latest budget reports seems to indicate that they are now self-sustaining. They're a very frugal MEC, so they don't spend a whole lot of money on meetings and such.

LOL; so as thanks you voted to have them give more! There's no B fund that others have. All they have is what they contribute. Those at regionals earn so little as it is. Money to ALPA vs money to themselves is precious. It's the spin that gets to us. It's not to even the playing field; rather it widens the divide. I understand the desire to keep the "lowlife's" where they belong. Heck, I had a legacy pilot tell me just that recently about airlines in general (he didn't know me or DH, so he just kept blabbering on about what lower beings those who worked for certain airlines were and specifically named DH's airline). Tell it like it is.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

There is an e-mail from HW to GV which was leaked in which HW told him they had Late night snacks which they were able to eat them the next day.

I'm not really sure what this means.