Low Time Interview
- Thread starter DAS
- Start date
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
Just because you can fly a DP or a Star doesn't mean anything. I could teach my grandma how to read a DP that doesn't mean she should go fly a commercial airliner. And congrats about flying DPs and Stars. For a 200 hour instrument pilot they can be pretty daunting. Just because we possibly could do something doesnt mean we can do it well.
Look at athletes for instance. College players are top notch athletes and are faster and younger than some of the older pro athletes. How come they sit a couple seasons out before they start? Because they need to gain experience and get up to speed on how the Professionals do it. You don't go straight from HS to the NFL you have to watch and learn.
FlySmiley
New Member
With regards to interviews, when they start asking questions about crossing restrictions and you can calculate one quickly and accurately because you've been there and done that plenty of times I think they can tell the difference between that and you studying a gouge. When they ask about ever having a failure of equipment while flying, they'd much rather hear your stories about the time you launched into low overcast with gusty winds on a DP and your vac. sys went to lunch and how you actually dealt with the situation, not the time your instructor failed your AI in the sim and you almost balled it up. Ever had a disagreement with a co-worker?.. yep once at burger king my manager wanted me to mop the floor and I didn't want to... or, my dispatch asked me to do something against the regs and how you broke down the regs for them and got the CP involved if necessary, etc.
Ok, experiences vary, but the more time you spend in the sky the more time you have had to experience things that will make your life on the line that much easier. Experiences that show not only will you be more of an asset than a liability to your captain, but also that you possess the qualities to become a captain yourself one day and not just a radio stooge.
If picking up an IFR clearance from KBOS, KEWR, KLGA etc.. is something you don't know how to do or are intimidated by, chances are you may not be ready for a jet yet. They go fast, things happen fast, you are getting paid to have certain competencies.
That being said, an airplane is an airplane and they all do the same thing once they are in the air. You can train monkeys to fly the airplane and they could probably even pass a sim check. Don't you think you owe it to yourself and your future captains to get some experience before joining the regional ranks? The captains will teach you how to be a captain, but they shouldn't be having to teach you basic things that you should already know before submitting that application. Just my thoughts, apologies to the 250hr wonders that disagree.
Ok, experiences vary, but the more time you spend in the sky the more time you have had to experience things that will make your life on the line that much easier. Experiences that show not only will you be more of an asset than a liability to your captain, but also that you possess the qualities to become a captain yourself one day and not just a radio stooge.
If picking up an IFR clearance from KBOS, KEWR, KLGA etc.. is something you don't know how to do or are intimidated by, chances are you may not be ready for a jet yet. They go fast, things happen fast, you are getting paid to have certain competencies.
That being said, an airplane is an airplane and they all do the same thing once they are in the air. You can train monkeys to fly the airplane and they could probably even pass a sim check. Don't you think you owe it to yourself and your future captains to get some experience before joining the regional ranks? The captains will teach you how to be a captain, but they shouldn't be having to teach you basic things that you should already know before submitting that application. Just my thoughts, apologies to the 250hr wonders that disagree.
jonnyb
Well-Known Member
You son of a gun....
I haven't taken her up that high, probably never will. That's a funny post though.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"The captains will teach you how to be a captain, but they shouldn't be having to teach you basic things that you should already know before submitting that application."
And what these people don't know is that so much of the basics don't get covered in airline training. Getting through ground school and the sim are one thing. The real world is another. There is just no substitute for experience when you get to the real world.
And what these people don't know is that so much of the basics don't get covered in airline training. Getting through ground school and the sim are one thing. The real world is another. There is just no substitute for experience when you get to the real world.
Airdale
Well-Known Member
Umm...not that I really want to get into this low time debate, because really this is the "interview" section, but when I interviewed, 5 people passed the sim ride out of 20. You'd be surprised how many people, reguardless of their hours, just plain suck at flying instruments.
I couldn't agree with you more. My first two months online were extremely difficult. In the sim, we flew approaches at 160kts. Going into Boston, we are told very often to "keep the speed up until final". Hand flying an ILS approach at 200+kts in solid soup isn't something they prepared you for in training.
Shamrok
New Member
DAS
New Member
Thanks for getting this thread back on track. "Low Time Interviews"
I know lots of people wants to know about the interviews, but many low timers are afraid to talk about it, because of this debate.
Airdale
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, certain people create an environment that makes people afraid to ask questions for fear of being attacked for being a "low timer".
I was in the military, I've worked with, been trained by, and have trained people from various walks of life.
Don't listen to anyone else. If you meet the minimums and get offered an interview, and you think you are ready - to not only successfully complete the training, but to also be an Airline pilot - then go for it. Not a single person should influence your decision on whether or not to interview or take the job. As a low timer, you may be expected to show a knowledge and skill level of someone with much more time then you. This is a good thing for you!
If you are offered a job, then it becomes your job to work your tail off to prove that you belong there. And it doesn't stop after the checkride, or after IOE. You need to prove EVERY single DAY flying the line that you deserve to be in that right seat. Sure, you may face some adversity on the line because you're a low timer - I had to face it too with certain Captains. But after said Captains allowed me to prove to them that I do belong there, they complimented me. Before you know it, you're not a "low time" guy anymore. You're a damn pilot bitchin about workin too much and gettin paid too little!
Shamrok
New Member
Unfortunately, certain people create an environment that makes people afraid to ask questions for fear of being attacked for being a "low timer".
I was in the military, I've worked with, been trained by, and have trained people from various walks of life.
Don't listen to anyone else. If you meet the minimums and get offered an interview, and you think you are ready - to not only successfully complete the training, but to also be an Airline pilot - then go for it. Not a single person should influence your decision on whether or not to interview or take the job. As a low timer, you may be expected to show a knowledge and skill level of someone with much more time then you. This is a good thing for you!
If you are offered a job, then it becomes your job to work your tail off to prove that you belong there. And it doesn't stop after the checkride, or after IOE. You need to prove EVERY single DAY flying the line that you deserve to be in that right seat. Sure, you may face some adversity on the line because you're a low timer - I had to face it too with certain Captains. But after said Captains allowed me to prove to them that I do belong there, they complimented me. Before you know it, you're not a "low time" guy anymore. You're a damn pilot bitchin about workin too much and gettin paid too little!
I agree completely. I laugh at the people telling me that my times are to low. It's not my fault that they needed 2000 hours to get hired years ago. It's called seize opportunity while its there! If you can do it, then do it. Its like the NFL in a way, college ball players leaving school early to go to the pro's. Why not? Why wait and snap a leg or tear your knee up during your senior year? Then your screwed. I see aviation in a similar fashion, why should I wait another year instructing if I believe that I can pass training NOW and do the job as good if not better than somone with 1500 hours. And believe me, there are plenty of 1500 hour pilots that aren't worth a damn. And most of you know that. So ease up on the low time pilot that is worth a damn!
I'm not waiting for hiring to slow to a dead stop due to terrorism or economic recession and then have people say " you should have gotten in when the mins were down". I'm not idiot, waiting is a choice that is different for everyone. Sit on the sidelines or get in the game? Hmmmm. If your a low timer and think your ready to move on with your career then don't wait or let someone talk you out of it, the nay sayers all have their opinions which is fine, but most had to wait until they had much more than 500 hours and will tell you how unsafe you are and all the other yata yata yata. If you can't do it you'll be sent home and end up working nights at Home Depot. If you can do it, you won't regret it. Bring on the flames!
phoenix 23684
Well-Known Member
Ok to get back on the topic:
I interviewed with less than 400TT/100M and got the job. I think there is more than just the time in your logbook. How well you prepare for the interview and training. I studied a lot and yes did review the gouges, but that only helped me prepare more, you still need to show that you can fly an unfamiliar sim and demonstrate your abilities.
As for training, I studied even more because I knew I was at a disadvantage being a low timer. I learned as much as I could about the airplane and the procedures.
I'm very thankful someone gave me an opportunity and will work my best to show that people with our times can be safe airline pilots. I can say that I feel very confident on my abilities, so did my IOE captain since I finished in only 16 hrs or so and he was very confident that I would do well. I was told after the second day of IOE that I would have no problems and only needed to work on the little things. And yes I did hand fly approaches at 210 to the final fix in a busy class B airspace with a tropical storm and high crosswinds and managed to grease the landing :rawk:
The bottom line if you really apply yourself it doesn't matter how many hours you have, listen to your instructors, learn, and have a positive attitude. You know what you can handle and don't listen to anyone tell you you have no business in the airlines. The total person not the number of hours is what's important.
P.s. For those skygods high time fellows: This is the reality of the industry instead on bashing us, how about a friendly hand to help us success since we are all in this together, we know you have more experience.
I interviewed with less than 400TT/100M and got the job. I think there is more than just the time in your logbook. How well you prepare for the interview and training. I studied a lot and yes did review the gouges, but that only helped me prepare more, you still need to show that you can fly an unfamiliar sim and demonstrate your abilities.
As for training, I studied even more because I knew I was at a disadvantage being a low timer. I learned as much as I could about the airplane and the procedures.
I'm very thankful someone gave me an opportunity and will work my best to show that people with our times can be safe airline pilots. I can say that I feel very confident on my abilities, so did my IOE captain since I finished in only 16 hrs or so and he was very confident that I would do well. I was told after the second day of IOE that I would have no problems and only needed to work on the little things. And yes I did hand fly approaches at 210 to the final fix in a busy class B airspace with a tropical storm and high crosswinds and managed to grease the landing :rawk:
The bottom line if you really apply yourself it doesn't matter how many hours you have, listen to your instructors, learn, and have a positive attitude. You know what you can handle and don't listen to anyone tell you you have no business in the airlines. The total person not the number of hours is what's important.
P.s. For those skygods high time fellows: This is the reality of the industry instead on bashing us, how about a friendly hand to help us success since we are all in this together, we know you have more experience.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"P.s. For those skygods high time fellows....."
"I finished in only 16 hrs or so and he was very confident that I would do well. I was told after the second day of IOE that I would have no problems and only needed to work on the little things. And yes I did hand fly approaches at 210 to the final fix in a busy class B airspace with a tropical storm and high crosswinds and managed to grease the landing"
Sounds like you think you're the skygod. Glad that's working out for you....
If I had to fly with you (which I don't, thanks goodness), I'd do my best to "help you along". Doesn't mean I have to believe you belong in the seat, though.
"I finished in only 16 hrs or so and he was very confident that I would do well. I was told after the second day of IOE that I would have no problems and only needed to work on the little things. And yes I did hand fly approaches at 210 to the final fix in a busy class B airspace with a tropical storm and high crosswinds and managed to grease the landing"
Sounds like you think you're the skygod. Glad that's working out for you....
If I had to fly with you (which I don't, thanks goodness), I'd do my best to "help you along". Doesn't mean I have to believe you belong in the seat, though.
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
Hmmm...a tropical storm, low-time FO....16hrs sounds a lot shorter than a normal IOE at Gulfstream International Airlines.
Seriously, I don't think any of the people on here who you think are "bashing" low-time FO's are really doing so. It's definitely not jealousy, either--there's been low-time options around for a while. For me, I just think back to when I had 300hrs and realize how little I knew then. You may think that you can fly the crap out of the airplane now, but with more experience (that you could have gained in ways other than sitting right seat in an airliner) you'll realize how little you know now.
"Sky God"? The airline pilots I know on here are still learning all the time, and are completely aware of it.
phoenix 23684
Well-Known Member
Ok ok,
Oops I wasn't trying to sound like I was bragging. Surely the more experience you gain the more you realize how little did you know back then. I was just trying to say that with hard effort I think us low timers can be safe and get through training.
Oops I wasn't trying to sound like I was bragging. Surely the more experience you gain the more you realize how little did you know back then. I was just trying to say that with hard effort I think us low timers can be safe and get through training.
The Juice
Well-Known Member
There is no subsitute for experience. A 750 hour pilot is more experiences than a 300 hour pilot, regardless if the fly STARS or DP's like you said. The problem with a 200-400 hour pilot is they do not yet know how much they do not know. Think back to when you just got your private and you wold bring friends and family up flying. Now ask yourself how much you did not know and how dangerous you were you had no idea of it at the time but now with retrospect your see this. Same goes for hours, when you have 1000 hours you will see how much you did not know as much as you thought at 250 hours. Same as to be said when you have 5000, 10,000...
Like i said..there is no subsitute for experience.
FSIPILOT
Well-Known Member
Its alarming to me that at less than 400tt, YOU felt confident after 16 hours of jet. Brother, you have no idea how much you don't know. Glad you figured out the most important things like greasing landings, next time your skipper lands firm... offer up some pointers.
88MPH
Addicted voyeur
You sound like my dad griping to me about how much I didn't know about driving. While that may be true, it's more like :banghead:.
Now, granted, I'm still low time and out of practice, but considering the attitudes of other professionals in other careers vs. pros in flying careers, most people seem to think that NO ONE should apply for ANY flying job unless you've CFI'd for x hours, or took a job where you fly by yourself (which doesn't promote CRM thats valued, so that's probably wasted too)
Not first hand, but otherwise I've now witnessed more than my share what it sounds like to be the proverbial "old crusty captain."
In an ideal world, the captains themselves would do the interviewing, and decide which/how many FOs to hire, regardless of industry-wide needs. Truth be told, the whole connection matrix would completely crumble from lack of pilots if the captains themselves only took those they felt had the necessary numbers in their book (and skills of course)
But that's not the case. This is a machine, just like every other industry. There must be a certain number of cogs to run it. Whether it be solidly cured cogs, or rusty aluminum cogs, at least it stays somewhat running. HR/managers do the hiring, for this cause only.
Sad, but true. SO ... while this pisses off many a captain that has to babysit these wonders, it's supply and demand. Yes, it sucks. Yes, it "should" be different. But you know what? It's not gonna be. At least not anytime soon.
My under-educated opinion, recall. Charge more/ticket, the customer WILL pay. Then use that pay to pay the recalled appropriately. It's idealistically simplistic, and practically impossible, for sure. But until that happens, all those that CFI'd might wanna consider reverting to those highly cherished CFI attitudes and actually open up to TEACH these FO's. That's what they bitch about others needing to do right? Yes, they SHOULD be up to speed by the time they hit the turbines, but they AREN'T. And there's nothing you can do about it, except maybe get off your high horse and practice what you preach.
Now ... I'm ready for the flames. Tell me how inexperienced I am ... how I have no place to tell Mr. Experience how to think/act. Tell me how I'm just a youngin' and should shut up and color.