Logging Flight Time w/out a Takeoff?

MikeFavinger said:
I'm aware. I'd log Far 1 if I flew army airplanes.
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The differences are not just for Army airplanes. For example, the Army only lets you log one mode of flight, so in the case of night/IMC you must chose between night and IMC. FAA permits a pilot to log both.
 
I have never ever heard that the FAA would "track" my hobbs time as "duty" time. Never. Doesn't happen.
If I log take off to landing time as right time, that is my flight time, as an instructor, or pilot.
The FAA will not tell you taxi time is flight time.
They allow the logging of taxi time as flight time because it isn't worth the effort to argue the point- as I have come to know. But they do not track an instructor's hobbs time as opposed to actual flight time. They accept it however you log it.
 
MikeD said:
Nice to not have to deal with that stuff anymore, huh? :)
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It's a trade-off, man. Now I actually have to watch instrument currency and biennial currency, which I haven't had to do in a long, long time. I've got 25 days until my instrument currency runs out right now. And unlike landing currency, that's a pain in the ass to get back! They'd better get the damned plane ready for me to pick up this week. :)
 
nosehair said:
I have never ever heard that the FAA would "track" my hobbs time as "duty" time. Never. Doesn't happen.
If I log take off to landing time as right time, that is my flight time, as an instructor, or pilot.
The FAA will not tell you taxi time is flight time.
They allow the logging of taxi time as flight time because it isn't worth the effort to argue the point- as I have come to know. But they do not track an instructor's hobbs time as opposed to actual flight time. They accept it however you log it.
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Ummm... yes the FAA does tell you taxi time is flight time if it is done for the purposes of attaining flight.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2014/silverberg-silverberg, goldman & bikoff - (2014) legal interpretation.pdf
 
nosehair said:
I have never ever heard that the FAA would "track" my hobbs time as "duty" time. Never. Doesn't happen.
If I log take off to landing time as right time, that is my flight time, as an instructor, or pilot.
The FAA will not tell you taxi time is flight time.
They allow the logging of taxi time as flight time because it isn't worth the effort to argue the point- as I have come to know. But they do not track an instructor's hobbs time as opposed to actual flight time. They accept it however you log it.
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The reality is the opposite. As shown by the recent opinion Blackhawk pointed to (which cites more than 30 years of backdrop), the FAA cares very much about duty time limitations and the inclusion of taxi time as "actual flight time." It's with respect to instructors not otherwise employed in the system and our duty time limitations, the FAA accepts whatever you put in because it's usually not worth the effort to argue the point.
 
MikeFavinger said:
I'm aware. I'd log Far 1 if I flew army airplanes.
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Oh, also remember that FAR 1 does not apply only to airplanes, but to "aircraft". In the eyes of the FAA a pilot may begin logging flight time when they start to ground taxi in a helicopter. Does this make sense? Well, after having a Saudi student try to roll a UH-60 on me while ground taxiing I would argue yes, it is flight time. In the eyes of the Army I was not yet logging IP time, but I was sure acting as an IP.
 
Blackhawk said:
Oh, also remember that FAR 1 does not apply only to airplanes, but to "aircraft". In the eyes of the FAA a pilot may begin logging flight time when they start to ground taxi in a helicopter. Does this make sense? Well, after having a Saudi student try to roll a UH-60 on me while ground taxiing I would argue yes, it is flight time. In the eyes of the Army I was not yet logging IP time, but I was sure acting as an IP.
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How does one manage to nearly roll a UH-60 over while ground taxiing? Impressive!
 
Hacker15e said:
I saw everything I needed to understand when he said "Saudi student."
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What do you mean? They're top notch! The best there is west of the Persian Gulf! Hell, we even had to herd some MiGs in during Desert Storm in order so one of their Light Grey guys could get a pair of kills!







:sarcasm:
 
Blackhawk said:
Yes it was. Lesson learned- never, ever let your guard down with a student. Especially a Saudi student.
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Even slowly ground taxiing, one could slap the cyclic full either way and one would be hard pressed to roll over. But.....if one group of people could figure out a way, it would definitely be the Saudis....
 
It rolled enough to lift a tire and start the dynamic roll over process before I intervened. Would have been an interesting accident report... "IP failed to intervene in time."
 
Blackhawk said:
It rolled enough to lift a tire and start the dynamic roll over process before I intervened. Would have been an interesting accident report... "IP failed to intervene in time."
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Allah would've intervened in time :)
 
I agree with Blackhawk's original post. Although (to me) this one is fairly straight forward, this discussion just reminds me what a PITA the regs are in general and the FSDOs' less-than-uniform interpretations.

At work it looks like we're getting ready to go around and around about 135.267...again. :bang:
 
ATN_Pilot said:
As a CFI, that's true. When you get into scheduled operations with flight and duty limits, it's not. The feds are quite picky about making sure that you and the carrier follow the rules.
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Completely different subject area. Flight time is inclusive in the "duty time" limitations set in 135/121 operations. There ate no such duty time limits in 91 ops, which is what flight instruction.is.
Please don't confuse the issue with airline operations.
 
Not to split (nose)hairs :) but a CFI is limited by the 24-hr look-back to 8 hrs of flight time. The current discussion is relevant because the FAA does count taxi time, with the intent to fly, as flight time.

Just saying.
 
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