Logging Flight Time w/out a Takeoff?

MidlifeFlyer said:
Understand Blackhawk's answer. It's not about trying to amass flight time for that next certificate, rating or job.

The FAA defines flight time as time during which a person "serves as a required pilot crew member" and "commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing." [Far 1.1 & 61.1]. And yes, it has and will continue to be used by low-time pilots to add time to their logbook.

But, as Blackhawk points out, the reason for the rule is not so a student pilot can get an extra 0.2 in his logbook toward his 40 hours of training for his private certificate when he's irretrievably fouled the plugs in a 152 on the taxi to the runway. It's to keep pilots and their employers honest with respect to duty time limitations when an airline leaves the gate, heads to the deicing station, waits in a ramp area due to heavy traffic, goes back to the icing station, for a do-over and, due to a mechanical problem, has to return to the gate an hour and a half after leaving it due to a mechanical problem.
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Which makes sense for a flight operation where duty limits apply, as you point out. For purposes of basic 91 ops, I just have never bothered with it as that extra 0.1 or 0.2 has never made any kind of difference for me. Well, maybe since the mid 80s, I've jipped myself of a fair number of hours. :D
 
If MikeD has a Hobbs I'm sure he'd use it. If it is up to him to declare time, then a quick wristwatch check, time off was x, time in was y, that makes sense.

If you manually deduct 0.3 from each flight that's crazy, I am told ORL FSDO does this for each X-C flight you have when you do IACRA as 'you're not really X-C during that bit'

Where they get that from is beyond me...
 
MikeD said:
Which makes sense for a flight operation where duty limits apply, as you point out. For purposes of basic 91 ops, I just have never bothered with it as that extra 0.1 or 0.2 has never made any kind of difference for me. Well, maybe since the mid 80s, I've jipped myself of a fair number of hours. :D
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I thought I did it once or twice in my early days as a private pilot - something like a rental I still had to pay for even though I couldn't fly it for some reason. But sorting my logbook based on total flight time didn't show any.
 
ahw01 said:
If MikeD has a Hobbs I'm sure he'd use it. If it is up to him to declare time, then a quick wristwatch check, time off was x, time in was y, that makes sense.

If you manually deduct 0.3 from each flight that's crazy, I am told ORL FSDO does this for each X-C flight you have when you do IACRA as 'you're not really X-C during that bit'

Where they get that from is beyond me...
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They probably see it as an extension of the Chief Counsel opinion requiring the performance of a takeoff and landing in order to log cross country time. A bit ridiculous, as is the whole idea of a FDSO making up its own rules.
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But they do it
 
I did this just the other day. Taxied out for a flight, got to the runway, had a mechanical, taxied back.

It all went into my flight and duty records for the company. Did I log it in my logbook? Yep. With a note about a mechanical. I want to try to at least have my logbook match up well with my flight and duty records
 
ppragman said:
I did this just the other day. Taxied out for a flight, got to the runway, had a mechanical, taxied back.

It all went into my flight and duty records for the company. Did I log it in my logbook? Yep. With a note about a mechanical. I want to try to at least have my logbook match up well with my flight and duty records
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At my organization, it's not logged as flight time in flight records, your situation; although it is duty time and counts as such for duty/rest period purposes. Different places, different ops.
 
I don't even know where my log book is. I haven't put anything in it in 8 years. I guess I should look around in the closet this weekend for it.
 
Cptnchia said:
I don't even know where my log book is. I haven't put anything in it in 8 years. I guess I should look around in the closet this weekend for it.
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I was the same way. Regretting it now that I have to know flight times for insurers and such. Getting 8 years of logbook entries up to date sucks.
 
Cptnchia said:
I don't even know where my log book is. I haven't put anything in it in 8 years. I guess I should look around in the closet this weekend for it.
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I started logging by day when I started flying for a living. The amount of effort is really very low—thirty seconds of typing at the end of the day, at most.

That said, I'm considering going back through and updating my paper logbook as a backup. I dunno.

-Fox
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I was the same way. Regretting it now that I have to know flight times for insurers and such. Getting 8 years of logbook entries up to date sucks.
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I would start a new logbook, and put your last total time with AAI as the starting time. You did print out a copy of your TT there before your left, didn't you?
 
Acrofox said:
I started logging by day when I started flying for a living. The amount of effort is really very low—thirty seconds of typing at the end of the day, at most.

That said, I'm considering going back through and updating my paper logbook as a backup. I dunno.

-Fox
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The difference is, I'm not looking for any more flying jobs.
 
Cptnchia said:
I would start a new logbook, and put your last total time with AAI as the starting time. You did print out a copy of your TT there before your left, didn't you?
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Yeah, I did, but I'm way too anal retentive to do it that way. I have to have every entry or it will drive me batguano crazy. :)
 
Blackhawk said:
That is true for your 759 (or whatever they use now), and for maintenance tracking. But in the eyes of the FAA an Army pilot may log their military flight time in a personal log book IAW FAR 1.
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I'm aware. I'd log Far 1 if I flew army airplanes.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
I thought I did it once or twice in my early days as a private pilot - something like a rental I still had to pay for even though I couldn't fly it for some reason.
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This happened to me in training twice. The FBO ended up not charging me for the time, but I still got to log it. In the scheme of things now, the 0.2 time isn't as important, but back then, I was logging everything I could!
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
It's cut and dry with the FAA also. Just a different cut.
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I agree that it's cut and dry - to people like you, me, and many others... however, there are plenty of people (as shown in this thread and others) who are not quite sure about FAR 1. Probably that "intent" word that gets them.
 
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