Local airports close as General Aviation wanes

[ppragman]

There's an 11 year wait list to get a float slip at my airport. I'm not even sure it's possible to get a hangar without buying or building one. I got the last tie down spot available, but apparently 2-3 come available and are leased every month. They're re-doing a lot of the parking to add electric outlets for pre-heat.

Realistically I think the problem at the Hood is available space. I don't know where you could put more airplanes without bulldozing Earthquake Park or a neighborhood. The hood proper is totally maxed out to capacity I my opinion, I doubt there is room for another floatslip.

 

[MikeD]

My airport had the same problem with hangars. What they discovered is that people who had a lot of the hangars hadn't had airplanes in them in many years but kept them because it was cheaper than renting the same amount of storage space off of the airport.

They passed a rule that said the tail number registered to the hangar must be in the hangar... now you can walk over and get a hangar right now if you want one.

City of Phoenix does inspections now of the rented hangars. If there's business or storage being run out of there, there will be trouble. Some guys have some junker airplane or parts inside, claiming to be in "restoration", when its obvious the plane has never been worked on or is nothing but pieces, and there's other non-aviation use of the hangar going on.

Also, if one wants to be a freelance A&P on the airport, they now have to register with the city, and pay a few-thousand dollar fee for doing so; unlike how it's been in the past.

 

[hook_dupin]

I've seen aviation shift to become more metro-area focused. My home strip in Indiana mostly serves as a combine unloading lane while the area around Boston (where I'm currently stationed) is not hurting for customers.

 

[Springer]

KRYN is deader than dead.

Can't be any worse than Marana NW Regional. Perhaps I can get a hangar there at a reasonable rate when I return in the fall.

 

[MikeD]

Can't be any worse than Marana NW Regional. Perhaps I can get a hangar there at a reasonable rate when I return in the fall.

Avra Valley isn't very busy. But they're trying to capitalize on Dove Mountain to the east, as the airport to fly into with your corporate jet rather than going into TUS and driving all that way up to the resort. Doesn't help that the Accenture Matchplay is gone from Dove Mountain, and that the Ritz Carlton there is somewhat in the middle of nowhere, especially with the JW Marriott in Gates Pass alot closer. But I guess we'll see. Restaurant isn't bad there, but standard breakfast/lunch only. But yeah......kind of quiet.

 

[Springer]

Avra Valley isn't very busy. But they're trying to capitalize on Dove Mountain to the east, as the airport to fly into with your corporate jet rather than going into TUS and driving all that way up to the resort. Doesn't help that the Accenture Matchplay is gone from Dove Mountain, and that the Ritz Carlton there is somewhat in the middle of nowhere, especially with the JW Marriott in Gates Pass alot closer. But I guess we'll see. Restaurant isn't bad there, but standard breakfast/lunch only. But yeah......kind of quiet.

It was really busy in the late 80's and early 90's with Bud Abrams and his son owning the FBO and the restaurant. Plus Patty Wagstaff was home based there, active aerobatic club, Custom Aircraft (RV builder), two brothers that rebuilt T-28's and the jump school.

 

[mshunter]

Maybe the common theme here is there have been enough airports closed down, that the junker airplanes have all been moved to other places, and everyone is crammed into smaller and smaller places, that's why places seem so busy.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

"it was colder than usual this last winter, global warming is a hoax"

Cute, but I also addressed the numbers. Again, only a 7% change in the number of airports in 25 years. Relax, the sky is not falling.

 

[MikeD]

Cute, but I also addressed the numbers. Again, only a 7% change in the number of airports in 25 years. Relax, the sky is not falling.

You're looking at one single aspect. It's not just the number of airports closed down, it's the decline of GA actvity overall at various airports.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

Northeast Airlines (and Delta, for a while) used to send DC-9s into New Bedford, Ma, Keene, NH ... Lewiston-Auburn used to see DHC-6s from Executive Airlines and then Air New England. Lawrence and Pittsfield, MA had scheduled airline service, once upon a time. In years gone by you could choose a dozen flights on several different airlines for travel between Portland, ME and Boston, MA.

That these things no longer are, doesn't mean the airline industry is "dead."

In an analagous way, I'd suggest that GA has retrenched with the passing of time, adapted to changing financial and social realities, and presents a HEALTHY picture with regard to the realities of 2015.

I am a healthy, happy 61 year old, yet I cannot do the same things, in the same way, that I did at 25. Life has changed with the passing of time, and so have I - adapting, changing, evolving ....

General Aviation doesn't HAVE to be what it was 45 years ago because NOTHING ELSE IS: not me personally, not the airline industry, not society (or the world), in general.

I suggest that what we see, though different from 1970, is a healthy example of what GA is in 2015.

 

[TWP]

It's shifted from the middle class to the upper middle class. A brand new 172 costs about 300k...which is ridiculous. The frivolous lawsuits that put small aircraft manufacturers out of business for awhile stole general aviation from the average working man.

Only 7% of airports have closed you say? Only 7%. Can I have only 7% of your income? You can just mail me the check monthly lol

 

[ppragman]

Cute, but I also addressed the numbers. Again, only a 7% change in the number of airports in 25 years. Relax, the sky is not falling.

You're cherry-picking numbers to fit your model, so, as you've so eloquently told me before, "you're wrong." Airport closures mean about frak-all when it comes to the GA scene. I was born and raised in a place with a prosperous GA community, and even there people talk about how much it has slowed down.

The numbers show a decline (⚠ PDF):
http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/72392/ICAT REPORT SHETTY.pdf?sequence=1

 

[Murdoughnut]

http://www.avweb.com/news/features/GAs-Difficult-Climb-Back-222927-1.html

Article by UGA statistics professor/pilot on the declining US pilot population

This is good stuff. I mean from a rigor perspective.

 

[trafficinsight]

City of Phoenix does inspections now of the rented hangars. If there's business or storage being run out of there, there will be trouble. Some guys have some junker airplane or parts inside, claiming to be in "restoration", when its obvious the plane has never been worked on or is nothing but pieces, and there's other non-aviation use of the hangar going on.

Also, if one wants to be a freelance A&P on the airport, they now have to register with the city, and pay a few-thousand dollar fee for doing so; unlike how it's been in the past.

Pretty much the same thing Santa Clara Co. does. One guy has a wrecked Mooney with no wings in his hangar.

When they did the big cleanout they found one hangar where the guy was building Lancairs and had like 5 of them in a box hangar in various states of finish... he had also modified the wiring in the hangar, 15 or so outlets around the walls wired to a single lightbulb socket on the ceiling... I bet his neighbors are glad their hangars have power reliably now. He also had industrial amounts of the chemicals in the hangar... they cracked down on fire code stuff after that too.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

You're cherry-picking numbers to fit your model, so, as you've so eloquently told me before, "you're wrong." Airport closures mean about frak-all when it comes to the GA scene. I was born and raised in a place with a prosperous GA community, and even there people talk about how much it has slowed down.

The numbers show a decline (⚠ PDF):
http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/72392/ICAT REPORT SHETTY.pdf?sequence=1

Again, you're starting from the false assumption that those levels are what is necessary for it to be considered a strong community. Just because the levels are below what they once were does not make the current environment unhealthy. I would say that the peak numbers were an aberration. We live in a country that has over 100 airports for every state in the union. We should consider ourselves very fortunate.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Again, you're starting from the false assumption that those levels are what is necessary for it to be considered a strong community. Just because the levels are below what they once were does not make the current environment unhealthy. I would say that the peak numbers were an aberration. We live in a country that has over 100 airports for every state in the union. We should consider ourselves very fortunate.

Try again

http://www.airnav.com/airports/us

Only 22 states have over 100 airports. That's less than half our union.

As a lifetime AOPA member since '06 approaching 10 years now I have to say all indications have been, and one of AOPA's biggest challenges, to get people back into GA as the numbers continue to decline. It's not just that, the economics of aircraft ownership today are much different than they were in the 60s, 70s, 80s. Even adjusted for inflation the cost of buying a new airplane has skyrocketed.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

It was an average, dumbass. (I know you can totally say ass on here, so I'm going to assume that includes dumbass )

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

It was an average, dumbass. (I know you can totally say ass on here, so I'm going to assume that includes dumbass )

No, it wasn't an average. You clearly stated "We live in a country that has over 100 airports for every state in the union."

The real crux of the matter is, you can never admit that you are wrong. You'll always try and play the words around. But it's not in you to say, hey I was wrong, oops. And not only that, you add an insult statement to somehow make yourself sound superior.

And if you want to play that average game, I added all the airports up, 4813, and divided by 50 states = 96.26

So, no, even with the average, it is still less than 100.


So........... you're still wrong.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

No, it wasn't an average. You clearly stated "We live in a country that has over 100 airports for every state in the union."

Which can be interpreted as either an average or not. I'm sorry that you aren't able to understand that.

And if you want to play that average game, I added all the airports up, 4813, and divided by 50 states = 96.26

So, no, even with the average, it is still less than 100.

So........... you're still wrong.

Your reading comprehension is really suffering today. From your own link: "The above list contains only public use airports and may be incomplete." The article Mike posted lists over 5,100 airports. A Google search yields the same results.

So.......... you're wrong. Again.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Thanks for proving my point. "You are never wrong. Ever."


"With the number of public airports having dropped from 5,589 in 1990 to 5,155 in 2013"

That was in MikeD's link, and that is over 2 years ago already. You never stated any averages.

It says a lot about a man when he never admit that he's wrong.

Your signature line pretty much says it all. You really are a legend in your mind, and I assure you the people you attack here on a daily basis feel the same way.