Live By The Gouge, Die By The Gouge

ATN_Pilot said:
Definitely don't make them up on the spot. Guys spend countless hours perfectly crafting their stories, because every airline asks the same ones.
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Yeah, that was sarcasm. I've been finding it a challenge to come up with appropriate stories for a number of reasons, even after nearly two decades of professional flying. The events in my career that I'd consider noteworthy and would tell to a fellow pilot aren't generally the ones that convey the info that is needed at a typical airline interview. The stuff I'm coming up with to answer many of these TMAATs barely even registers on my memory most of the time...I am fortunate that I've kept a digital logbook with extensive comments over the years, else I'd never have remembered many of the events that I've drug out as part of my repertoire.

I'm sure that's part of the objective of these questions, but I'd much rather tell a story about the time I saved a British army unit from being over-run by the Taliban by strafing in the F-15E than telling a story about the time in the King Air when I got a chip light and my enlisted crew and I used CRM to both recover the ship safely and get the mission done.

Last year I went to an interview for a corporate outfit, and after initial formalities with the chief pilot, the whole hour was literally just spent informally talking about flying, how we both liked to fly tailwheel airplanes, his uncle's experiences as an F-105 pilot in Vietnam, etc. It barely felt like an interview at all, and I'm sure that was the point. Yes, I got the job offer, too (but couldn't accept...thanks, Uncle Sam).

ATN_Pilot said:
Personally, I'd like to see some hard core cognitive testing, personality assessment, and technical knowledge testing. Forget all of this touchy feely nonsense.
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So, what Delta does, then.
 
Hacker15e said:
Okay, since that question generated some interesting discussion, here's another one from that same gouge with, in my opinion, a chaff answer and chaff explanation.
If you hold 360 KTAS in a descent from FL360 to FL200,
A. Mach number increases, IAS increases, AOA decreases
B. Mach number decreases, IAS decreases, AOA decreases
C. Mach number decreases, IAS decreases, AOA increases
D. Mach number decreases, IAS increases, AOA decreases

(Answer: B As descending through the atmosphere Mach number will decrease until it becomes speed in knots, IAS will decrease because the increased air density through which the aircraft is moving, AOA will decrease as well because to maintain the decreasing TAS, the nose will need to be lowered to maintain that speeD.)
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To add fuel to the discussion, I'll leave this diagram which shows the relationship between IAS, TAS, and Mach. In the USAF, we teach this relationship by holding up three fingers in a "W" shape and using the memory aid "In The Mood". ITM is the order, from left to right that the "fingers" are labeled. By holding straight up the finger which speed is held constant, you can derive what the other two speeds will do (increase, decrease).
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Um, wtf? If you hold a constant TAS, IAS must go UP as you descend. As your graph shows. Anyone who has flown anything that can make it to the teens should have personally experienced that. It cannot possibly be B.
 
Maurus said:
Then again United is a step behind on that whole Simulator thing. Weird how they say "we know you can fly" and then test if we can fly in the interview. It is what it is, but like most things anymore in aviation it doesn't make much sense.
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You have a misperception about what the sim is about.

The simulator is a CRM exercise in a realistic environment.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Personally, I prefer it those idiotic TMAAT questions that everyone conjures fake answers to.
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Once again, painting in such a broad brush.

Mine weren't fake, they actually happened to me. A well trained interviewer can easily distinguish sincerity and 'I helped an old lady with a wheelchair' type of answers.

Also, most Fortune 500 companies use a variant of the TMAAT format.
 
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Hacker15e said:
So, what Delta does, then.
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Honestly, I don't know. Is that what Delta does? It's been nearly a decade since I was studying for interviews, so I don't have a clue who is doing what right now. I assume the TMAAT nonsense is still prevalent, but beyond that, I don't really know.
 
Seggy said:
Once again, painting in such a broad brush.

Mine weren't fake, they actually happened to me. A well trained interviewer can easily distinguish sincerity and 'I helped an old lady with a wheelchair' type of answers.
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Of course, we all know that you're the perfect person, the perfect employee, the perfect husband, the perfect father, etc. :rolleyes:

Also, most Fortune 500 companies use a variant of the TMAAT format.
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Most Fortune 500 companies are inviting idiots like Dan Pink to give speeches to their employees and paying him $20k per speech, too. Why should I care?
 
z987k said:
Um, wtf? If you hold a constant TAS, IAS must go UP as you descend. As your graph shows. Anyone who has flown anything that can make it to the teens should have personally experienced that. It cannot possibly be B.
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Exactly my point...and there are more questions with equally spurious answers and explanations like that in this gouge.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Of course, we all know that you're the perfect person, the perfect employee, the perfect husband, the perfect father, etc. :rolleyes:



Most Fortune 500 companies are inviting idiots like Dan Pink to give speeches to their employees and paying him $20k per speech, too. Why should I care?
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Such anger instead of substance.

Anyway, maybe @HRDiva can talk a little more about being able to tell the difference between fake a real TMAAT stories.
 
Im glad someone posted this warning to the masses here as I warned in my WFFF gouge that the study guides i got for my interview were questionable in many supplied answers. The only way to truly prepare was to use the questions as a guide to what knowledge topics were needed, and then to gain a correlative level of knowledge on that subject.
 
The funny part is that the interviewers scan the internet and already know you've read the questions and have seen the answers as well. But those specifically aren't the correct answers.
 
Derg said:
The funny part is that the interviewers scan the internet and already know you've read the questions and have seen the answers as well. But those specifically aren't the correct answers.
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That's part of the game, though, isn't it? The mantra that is the title of this thread goes to the very core issue that gouge, by definition, can be wrong, and if you rely on it singularly you'll "die by" it.

Everyone who has been hired knows that the information is out there, and that includes the guys sitting on the company side of the table doing the interviews. They know there's good stuff, and bad stuff...but they also know that the information available that can be studied can only go so far in preparing someone. That there are other discriminators that will ultimately point to someone being right or not to get the job offer.

I thought it was actually refreshing at the SkyWest job fair I went to, and the Captains that were doing the presentation said that they expected interviewees to have spent the time and effort to look for and study the gouge. From their perspective, they said it showed initiative and that candidates were willing to work for the job rather than just having something thrown in their lap with no effort expended.
 
Seggy said:
You have a misperception about what the sim is about.

The simulator is a CRM exercise in a realistic environment.
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Fair enough. I will still chalk it up as something in an interview that has good intentions but ultimately is inadequate.
 
Hacker15e said:
I thought it was actually refreshing at the SkyWest job fair I went to, and the Captains that were doing the presentation said that they expected interviewees to have spent the time and effort to look for and study the gouge. From their perspective, they said it showed initiative and that candidates were willing to work for the job rather than just having something thrown in their lap with no effort expended.
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Quoting this for effect.

It's kind of like candidates showing up and having no idea about our bases or aircraft.
Although, I guess in their defense we open and close them faster than my ex's legs...
 
Seggy said:
There should be no hazing in the 121 world. What you are studying for is an interview process that is outdated.
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This from the guy that used to haze his FO's and thought it was funny. Glad to see you finally saw your wrong.
 
PropSettin' said:
Im glad someone posted this warning to the masses here as I warned in my WFFF gouge that the study guides i got for my interview were questionable in many supplied answers. The only way to truly prepare was to use the questions as a guide to what knowledge topics were needed, and then to gain a correlative level of knowledge on that subject.
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I always kind of thought that was the understood way to use interview prep "gouge."

I'm sure not going to get technical information from what is essentially a blog. I will however use multiple accounts of experience to build a picture of what the interviews is like then use primary sources to find the answers.
 
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