LGA accident

The warning system didnt alert. The truck driver didnt look before crossing the runway. The controller was working several frequencies at once. Safety failures at every level. ☹️
 
GolfChuck said:
A vehicle would only need an old 4096 mode A transponder for the asde to work. No need to buy something(edit: new), there has to be a ton of those that were scrapped or on shelves collecting dust now. I brought this up when the ads-b mandate happened, but I am nobody.


From the article I posted above:
View attachment 88977

If you are correct, it is possible the lead vehicle (truck 1) did stop, and this truck (32) didn't get the message. It is not unusual for some vehicles in a convoy to not have an aviation radio onboard, but I would think ALL ARFF vehicles would have them. This article is the only source I saw mention the lack of radios. I did retrieve it at the time of this post and it is unchanged from last night when I linked it originally.
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The way I read that was an attempt to explain in layperson’s terms what a transponder is.

However, if you closely watch the video of the impact (post #64), it appears the lead vehicle DOES stop, and truck 35 goes around it, onto the runway. It also appears truck 35 starts a sharp left turn, right before impact. May have tried to evade, but too late…

Fortunately, there are a lot of live witnesses who will hopefully shed light on what happened from their perspective. The investigators will have a lot of info to work with.
 
GolfChuck said:
A vehicle would only need an old 4096 mode A transponder for the asde to work. No need to buy something(edit: new), there has to be a ton of those that were scrapped or on shelves collecting dust now. I brought this up when the ads-b mandate happened, but I am nobody.


From the article I posted above:
View attachment 88977

If you are correct, it is possible the lead vehicle (truck 1) did stop, and this truck (32) didn't get the message. It is not unusual for some vehicles in a convoy to not have an aviation radio onboard, but I would think ALL ARFF vehicles would have them. This article is the only source I saw mention the lack of radios. I did retrieve it at the time of this post and it is unchanged from last night when I linked it originally.
Click to expand...
I took the “radio receiver and transmitter” as a layman’s explanation of what a transponder is rather than saying they didn’t have radio on board to talk to others.

In follow up calls I don’t believe the callsign truck 1 was used again so I’m assuming that was truck 1 that was hit
 
knot4u said:
CA is doing it! You'll be able to get from LA to SF in under three hours! The US is finally going to get a real bullet train! The rest of the states will surely follow this example of bureaucratic efficiency...

Wait a second, I just read the project is massively over budget and behind schedule. Not a single section of rail has been placed, no stations have been built and now it's going to run between Merced and Bakersfield (a very popular corridor for commuters). Billions of dollars have gone into this project over 2 1/2 decades and there's nothing to show for it, the Feds have decided to stop funding this entire debacle. There's no accounting where the all of the state tax or federal tax money went but they've spent $13.8 billion so far. CA has about 10% of the US population, now that fraud has become a big talking point the floodgates of info about what's going on in that state shouldn't be surprising. I love CA and I'd go back, but not until after they hit rock bottom and are recovering. That's what a democrat super majority leads to, all ideas and good vibes, zero pragmatism and actual work.
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They're spending money on lawsuits and environmental studies. Everyone that is against the HSR is actively fighting using laws to force more and more environmental review. Even though CAHSR ends up winning these, they still have to spend a lot of money on lawyers and stop progress in the meantime for whatever reason. It's absolutely asinine.
 
MikeD said:
Curiously, how much would LGA tower have been involved with trying to help UAL get a gate? Wouldn’t the UAL jet be talking to ramp tower for coordination of all of that? Then let ground know what solution has been made? Assuming the UAL jet wasn’t sitting on or blocking a taxiway or other movement area, but still, would LGA ground controller be involved with any coordination of that? It seems outside their scope of responsibility, if I’m understanding it right?
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So there’s a lot to this question which is fair. LGA had a pretty big transition where when we use to land we called ramp for our spot entry. Then idk maybe 6 months ago or more that was no longer required - even notam’d by company to NOT do it anymore. Ground will assign your spot when you land.

With this When United landed they were on B it appears, didn’t have a gate obviously. So they told tower that (which seems like he’s working ground too - unconfirmed got conflicting reports) then he moved him to A short of the entry but still on a taxiway. Which prompts him to say he will call to get him a gate and then lane entry. You can hear the phone calls in the video I provided. He called at least 3 people.

Whixh the United jet situation just kept getting worse in the matter of minutes it went from an odor that just needs to get a gate with fire. Then escalated to an emergency (not requiring evacuation) then nearly 60-90 seconds later it becomes if no gate comes open soon need air stairs (evacuate on the taxiway).

Any of the timeline can be corrected if I’m wrong but based on the videos and transcripts seems like this all led up to the moment the truck asks to cross. Which seems to be in a 5-7 minute timeframe roughly. Controller was doing A LOT! And I hope this can be seriously questioned because I’ve landed in LGA A LOT >10-11:00 pm local time. It can be very quiet and dead or busy like this and then throw in the emergency. Just a lot of brutally bad links chained together for an accident. And there’s a lot more we probably still don’t know about that could have broke this off but didn’t…
 
Toobdrvr said:
The way I read that was an attempt to explain in layperson’s terms what a transponder is.

However, if you closely watch the video of the impact (post #64), it appears the lead vehicle DOES stop, and truck 35 goes around it, onto the runway. It also appears truck 35 starts a sharp left turn, right before impact. May have tried to evade, but too late…

Fortunately, there are a lot of live witnesses who will hopefully shed light on what happened from their perspective. The investigators will have a lot of info to work with.
Click to expand...

Good observation.

Makes you wonder if the vehicles that stopped did so because they saw the CRJ or because they heard the radio call.
 
tcco94 said:
So there’s a lot to this question which is fair. LGA had a pretty big transition where when we use to land we called ramp for our spot entry. Then idk maybe 6 months ago or more that was no longer required - even notam’d by company to NOT do it anymore. Ground will assign your spot when you land.

With this When United landed they were on B it appears, didn’t have a gate obviously. So they told tower that (which seems like he’s working ground too - unconfirmed got conflicting reports) then he moved him to A short of the entry but still on a taxiway. Which prompts him to say he will call to get him a gate and then lane entry. You can hear the phone calls in the video I provided. He called at least 3 people.

Whixh the United jet situation just kept getting worse in the matter of minutes it went from an odor that just needs to get a gate with fire. Then escalated to an emergency (not requiring evacuation) then nearly 60-90 seconds later it becomes if no gate comes open soon need air stairs (evacuate on the taxiway).

Any of the timeline can be corrected if I’m wrong but based on the videos and transcripts seems like this all led up to the moment the truck asks to cross. Which seems to be in a 5-7 minute timeframe roughly. Controller was doing A LOT! And I hope this can be seriously questioned because I’ve landed in LGA A LOT >10-11:00 pm local time. It can be very quiet and dead or busy like this and then throw in the emergency. Just a lot of brutally bad links chained together for an accident. And there’s a lot more we probably still don’t know about that could have broke this off but didn’t…
Click to expand...

That is very interesting that the FAA controllers would get into the job of coordinating for and passing along gate assignments, when there’s a ramp control. Wonder why that change was made, and why the FAA would take that on? Ramp areas are generally non-movement areas for the purposes of the ground controller and FAA purview. Weird that that LGA tower would agree to take on even more workload, given that they potentially they already had staffing issues as is. And given that gate management is normally an airline or airport issue, not an FAA issue.
 
MikeD said:
That is very interesting that the FAA controllers would get into the job of coordinating for and passing along gate assignments, when there’s a ramp control. Wonder why that change was made, and why the FAA would take that on? Ramp areas are generally non-movement areas for the purposes of the ground controller and FAA purview. Weird that that LGA tower would agree to take on even more workload, given that they potentially they already had staffing issues as is. And given that gate management is normally an airline or airport issue, not an FAA issue.
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I’m not exactly sure what the normal background day to day stuff is. My assumption is the ramp control/company/etc sets the gate and now the requiring of us to call ramp and get the entry spot makes it more complicated. They must have a new system where LGA ground can see your gate and thus clear you to spot XX then you call ramp control for entry. Again this just a normal day, when it’s a normal day it works better.

But now I guess we see during an emergency I’m not sure why he is making calls for United about a gate. I’d think it would be more prudent to say ok you let me know if we get a gate and if we don’t we don’t. And if we need to evacuate then go from there. Would have taken a lot off this guys plate.

Especially considering once we get to spot XX we aren’t even talking to them anymore anyways. So I found it interesting he jumped in to help there, but maybe he was trying to get it resolved faster?
 
FWIW there only being two controllers there at this time is not due to staffing issues but standard mid shift ops. That’s how almost every facility in the NAS staffs for mids (except some redeye cargo hubs like MEM).

Now poor staffing and 6 day weeks and/or 10 hour days for years leading to a permanent state of fatigue is a real thing, but facility staffing levels wasn’t the reason for there only being 2 people there. Also LGA has 33 certified out of 37 to be considered 100% staffed so that’s pretty fat for FAA. I don’t even know if LGA is on 6 day weeks with those numbers.
 
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