LGA accident
- Thread starter B200 Hawk
- Start date
Soku39
Well-Known Member
There would still be plenty of jobs for us. Why I can't ride a train from Cleveand to Pittsburgh or Cleveland to Cinci is just mindblowing.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Are you a 121 pilot?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Yes, in the 50s. And not just the first TWA and UAL collision (NYC). Still, there have been far more collisions of 121 with COR/GA/MIL/pies.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
This is just lip service. Like thoughts and prayers after a mass shooting.
Most of of us know, and I’ve told my family that (before 2025) we are on the brink when it came to safety, and that the next major disaster in this country was with going to be a 121 involved in a midair collision or a runway collision. And both happened 14 months apart.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
This is a tragedy but the lesson is that we need to add an additional layer to the block of sliced Swiss cheese, two layers is not enough.
I think that a bunch a folks thought that looking both ways before entering an intersection was DNA-level vehicular operation. A bunch of folks were wrong.
This can be fixed without politics or inter-industry fighting .
I think that a bunch a folks thought that looking both ways before entering an intersection was DNA-level vehicular operation. A bunch of folks were wrong.
This can be fixed without politics or inter-industry fighting .
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
I disagree with the politics part. Getting more controllers hired to prevent one person from running everything involves politics.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
I think this could have happened with a dozen controllers on the clock. Responsibilities are divided with little concurrent control.
My cousin was the controller at LEX during Comair 5191. In the wake of that disaster, a number of folks wanted to make a (misplaced) case for increased staffing.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
It could have, but I still think the chances of the initial clearance to cross are much lower if the controller is only working one area of responsibility.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
CA is doing it! You'll be able to get from LA to SF in under three hours! The US is finally going to get a real bullet train! The rest of the states will surely follow this example of bureaucratic efficiency...
Wait a second, I just read the project is massively over budget and behind schedule. Not a single section of rail has been placed, no stations have been built and now it's going to run between Merced and Bakersfield (a very popular corridor for commuters). Billions of dollars have gone into this project over 2 1/2 decades and there's nothing to show for it, the Feds have decided to stop funding this entire debacle. There's no accounting where the all of the state tax or federal tax money went but they've spent $13.8 billion so far. CA has about 10% of the US population, now that fraud has become a big talking point the floodgates of info about what's going on in that state shouldn't be surprising. I love CA and I'd go back, but not until after they hit rock bottom and are recovering. That's what a democrat super majority leads to, all ideas and good vibes, zero pragmatism and actual work.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
You might be right. 5191 was a case where everybody agreed that one controller with two responsibilities was safer. Then, the union failed to back their own agreement and back their controller, making a false claim of inadequate staffing.
phill1174
Well-Known Member
It all comes back around to the dollar. I wonder what the return on not having a transponder was vs. 2 dead pilots and multiple injured passengers and personnel. We haven’t even started talking lawsuits yet.
Unfortunately this is a common theme in aviation. Save money on that one thing that could’ve possibly kept the Swiss cheese holes from aligning. This in particular reminds me of UPS 1354. Would that GPWS update have helped? We’ll never know, just like this.
That’s interesting, as I’ve heard it multiple times when an emergency has been in progress at different airports. Interesting that it wouldn’t be done, as it would be nice for aircraft to know, since some emergency vehicles drive around with their full code lights on all the time when driving on ramps and movement areas, not just the amber ones, and would be good to know when they are responding to an actual emergency or just moving on the field.
inigo88
Composite-lover
Adding to this, some general aviation workarounds have been made for the ADS-B mandate. A buddy of mine got this which seemed to work pretty well. $2199 is still very expensive, but cheap relative to buying a WAAS GPS + full ADS-B transponder. I’m curious if something similar exists to equip ground vehicles with ads-b without needing a full certified transponder solution?
uAvionix tailBeacon TSO Nav Light ADS-B Out For Certified Aircraft | Aircraft Spruce ®
uAvionix tailBeacon TSO Nav Light ADS-B Out For Certified Aircraft uAvionix tailBeacon is the latest all-in-one certified ADS-B solution from uAvionix.
www.aircraftspruce.com
I’m also curious if the ARFF vehicle that was hit was “Truck 1” or one of the “and company” followers? The vehicle is labeled “32” in the accident photos, but that could be some local vehicle number vs. radio callsign procedure.
GolfChuck
Trustworthy Source
A vehicle would only need an old 4096 mode A transponder for the asde to work. No need to buy something(edit: new), there has to be a ton of those that were scrapped or on shelves collecting dust now. I brought this up when the ads-b mandate happened, but I am nobody.Adding to this, some general aviation workarounds have been made for the ADS-B mandate. A buddy of mine got this which seemed to work pretty well. $2199 is still very expensive, but cheap relative to buying a WAAS GPS + full ADS-B transponder. I’m curious if something similar exists to equip ground vehicles with ads-b without needing a full certified transponder solution?
uAvionix tailBeacon TSO Nav Light ADS-B Out For Certified Aircraft | Aircraft Spruce ®
uAvionix tailBeacon TSO Nav Light ADS-B Out For Certified Aircraft uAvionix tailBeacon is the latest all-in-one certified ADS-B solution from uAvionix.
I’m also curious if the ARFF vehicle that was hit was “Truck 1” or one of the “and company” followers? The vehicle is labeled “32” in the accident photos, but that could be some local vehicle number vs. radio callsign procedure.
From the article I posted above:
If you are correct, it is possible the lead vehicle (truck 1) did stop, and this truck (32) didn't get the message. It is not unusual for some vehicles in a convoy to not have an aviation radio onboard, but I would think ALL ARFF vehicles would have them. This article is the only source I saw mention the lack of radios. I did retrieve it at the time of this post and it is unchanged from last night when I linked it originally.
inigo88
Composite-lover
Looks like I was looking at a zoomed out photo, should be 35 not 32. Either way not Truck 1 though, unless they do some local procedures thing where the radio callsign isn’t the same as the number on the vehicle.
Bob Ridpath
Pit Bull love
Our airport, 44N, is a busy GA field (single runway). Both our first-due engines have a radio which lets us transmit on 122.8 on the rare occasions we have an aircraft emergency on the field. We can provide better communication there than we can to the traveling public on the roads in case of an accident -and we do.
Understanding that stuff happens, I'm still stunned this occurred at a controlled field.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
A portable ADSB transceiver suitable for airside vehicles should be easily buildable in the $100 range.
HJB
Well-Known Member
Sounds like the Dallas to Houston train I’ve been hearing about since 3rd grade
