Leave for Frontier or stay at Atlas

[ASpilot2be]

I know there's one person here who looks down on people who don't fly for a legacy or one of the big two cargo companies, but the ULCCs are a pretty damn good job.

Is it perfect? No. No job is perfect. We have parts of our contract that need work, and some that are pretty good. I work with awesome people, flying new airplanes, and generally have fun doing it. And they pay me pretty good to do it.

We have hundreds of airplanes on order and they are gonna have to do something to staff all these planes. So things are gonna get better from where they are. We hold a lot of bargaining power right now.

Is every job a gamble? Absolutely. But I feel safer at a ULCC right now than any other job, except cargo. But I get why people leave, they want to have diversity in their flying. The opportunity to fly widebodies to far away places. But don't go putting us down as a bad place to work. If you don't mind flying domestic, it's not a bad place to be.

 

[Adler]

I know there's one person here who looks down on people who don't fly for a legacy or one of the big two cargo companies, but the ULCCs are a pretty damn good job.

Is it perfect? No. No job is perfect. We have parts of our contract that need work, and some that are pretty good. I work with awesome people, flying new airplanes, and generally have fun doing it. And they pay me pretty good to do it.

We have hundreds of airplanes on order and they are gonna have to do something to staff all these planes. So things are gonna get better from where they are. We hold a lot of bargaining power right now.

Is every job a gamble? Absolutely. But I feel safer at a ULCC right now than any other job, except cargo. But I get why people leave, they want to have diversity in their flying. The opportunity to fly widebodies to far away places. But don't go putting us down as a bad place to work. If you don't mind flying domestic, it's not a bad place to be.

*was a good job.

But lately it seems like every other day is some new announcement, making life worse and worse. Like getting riding your bike and getting hit by a car, and while you're on the ground somebody steaks your bike.

 

[ASpilot2be]

*was a good job.

But lately it seems like every other day is some new announcement, making life worse and worse. Like getting riding your bike and getting hit by a car, and while you're on the ground somebody steaks your bike.

That's fair. But still better than my regional days, and I lived in base. But if everybody keeps leaving, they will have to fix things. And that's what I am hoping for. No regrets coming here at all.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Frontier is the unofficial United pathway program. If he goes to an LCC and gets the type. If he wanted he could probably go anywhere. We have two members that were at Frontier and are now at a legacy. And at one of the big two cargo airlines.

If I was a RJ CA, I’d make one big/final move. This isn’t the 2010-2019 decade anymore.

 

[Adler]

That's fair. But still better than my regional days, and I lived in base. But if everybody keeps leaving, they will have to fix things. And that's what I am hoping for. No regrets coming here at all.

Or if everyone keeps leaving, and those who stay keep saying "still better than my regional", they will trash the place until it it just barely, better than a regional.

We've got ourselves a jellyfish situation.

 

[Hiboglossi]

If I was a RJ CA, I’d make one big/final move. This isn’t the 2010-2019 decade anymore.

It certainly isn't the 2010s anymore. It's been barely 2 years since they ended and already 4 U.S. regionals have been Comaired in that time. Probably best to escape the regionals the first chance you get, before you're next. Especially if you're at an all 50-seater regional. The majors may be hiring like gangbusters now but those doors could slam shut soon with the recent increase in oil prices.

 

[upup89]

Go with your gut. If you don’t feel like Frontier is a move you want to make then by all means stay. But just the other day Biffle said he could foresee needing 600-700 more airplanes post merger. This management has a playbook that works and they stick to it.

 

[ozziecat35]

are you not eligible for the flow?

I got a tbnt with Aviate back in 2019, when it was still a brand new program, and I'm not sure United really knew what they wanted from it. The acceptance rate was much lower early on. All that said, I did the hogan the same day in DEN. Per United's guidance, since I interviewed, and got a TBNT, I am not eligible to opt in to the "flow." To complicate matters, United has also made the hogan less of a stumbling block, and more of a "weighed together" as part of the greater whole kinda deal. Since I don't know what caused my tbnt; the hogan, the HR, or the tech, I "may" still have a shot, so I opted in, and will let UA tell me no for a second time...There's another player in the mix as well that I don't want to jinx, so I'll hold off on that. I'd be happy to join Frontier, I'm just struggling with the idea of commuting. I know I know, first world problems. I've been spoiled for 4 years. I commuted to CAE out of ORD for 1 trip, then the rest of my time has been either ORD or driving to MKE.

 

[guywhoflies]

It certainly isn't the 2010s anymore. It's been barely 2 years since they ended and already 4 U.S. regionals have been Comaired in that time. Probably best to escape the regionals the first chance you get, before you're next. Especially if you're at an all 50-seater regional. The majors may be hiring like gangbusters now but those doors could slam shut soon with the recent increase in oil prices.

So what's your plan?

 

[ASpilot2be]

Or if everyone keeps leaving, and those who stay keep saying "still better than my regional", they will trash the place until it it just barely, better than a regional.

We've got ourselves a jellyfish situation.

I will be an optimist and hope that doesn't happen.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Or if everyone keeps leaving, and those who stay keep saying "still better than my regional", they will trash the place until it it just barely, better than a regional.

We've got ourselves a jellyfish situation.

This. The better than a regional mentality is garbage.

 

[ASpilot2be]

This. The better than a regional mentality is garbage.

I disagree. I would rather be here than at a regional. Here I have better retirement, better job stability, better work rules, and overall better QOL. But we're also coming up on negotiations, and we have an opportunity to get a good contract. Some people here are actually trying to make it a better place to work instead of whining like a freaking child.

 

[swakid8]

Ozziecat, my dilemma is a bit different. You have the PIC time now, I assume at least a 1000. I would make the jump in a heartbeat. My situation is a bit different. I escaped the regional world. I’ve been sitting on this decision but more and more I am leaning on sticking it out.

I am just baffled on why it’s crickets from United.

 

[CFIT99]

I disagree. I would rather be here than at a regional. Here I have better retirement, better job stability, better work rules, and overall better QOL. But we're also coming up on negotiations, and we have an opportunity to get a good contract. Some people here are actually trying to make it a better place to work instead of whining like a freaking child.

I think he was saying the mentality of "Better than a regional" is garbage...as in it's an asinine comparison when it comes to anything and it only hurts us.

 

[ASpilot2be]

I think he was saying the mentality of "Better than a regional" is garbage...as in it's an asinine comparison when it comes to anything and it only hurts us.

That's fair. I really want that mentality out of management. Hopefully with this new contract we can stick it to them and make some improvements on the contracts.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

I disagree. I would rather be here than at a regional. Here I have better retirement, better job stability, better work rules, and overall better QOL. But we're also coming up on negotiations, and we have an opportunity to get a good contract. Some people here are actually trying to make it a better place to work instead of whining like a freaking child.

Yes, it is better than a regional, but being willing to put up with sub par pay and work rules compared to legacy airlines because it is better than a regional is a bad mentality to have. In many ways, my regional contract was better than the one at Spirit. There’s a large portion of our pilot group that thinks things here are good enough. They aren’t.

 

[ASpilot2be]

Yes, it is better than a regional, but being willing to put up with sub par pay and work rules compared to legacy airlines because it is better than a regional is a bad mentality to have. In many ways, my regional contract was better than the one at Spirit. There’s a large portion of our pilot group that thinks things here are good enough. They aren’t.

That's fair. Like I said earlier, they are ok contracts, and we have a lot of bargaining power to improve things now. Most people here are ok with the contract, but have a lot of improvements they want. They don't have the rose colored glasses on.

 

[roundout]

That's fair. Like I said earlier, they are ok contracts, and we have a lot of bargaining power to improve things now. Most people here are ok with the contract, but have a lot of improvements they want. They don't have the rose colored glasses on.

877-CASH-NOW

A min day instead of min duty period. Level up LTD. let the union have input on the pairings. And maybe quit harassing people for sick calls.

see, this doesn’t have to take years. It only takes money.

 

[ASpilot2be]

877-CASH-NOW

A min day instead of min duty period. Level up LTD. let the union have input on the pairings. And maybe quit harassing people for sick calls.

see, this doesn’t have to take years. It only takes money.

Absolutely. And maybe adjust our DDL so you can actually swap things.

 

[BobDDuck]

A min day instead of min duty period.

Understand the difference between a min day, an average min day, a min duty period, and strong trip rig, and also how early/late carve outs can destroy all of those. Also understand what everybody else in the industry has and doesn't have.

tl;dr: based on industry standards, nobody has a min day that pays out.