Learjet 60 crash in West Palm Beach

At our airline that would be expressly prohibited. Even at my old 135 shop that wasn’t done. I’ve heard crews use the WiFi for personal use while working and I imagine it’s not tightly enforced but why in the world would you give the company that to hang over your head?
 
Inverted said:
Oh come on. Texting your boyfriend when in the middle of significant weather while the CA does nothing?

I've flown enough 135, I know how it goes between communication with the company, broker, FBO etc. but don't put that in the same column as what she did.
Click to expand...
I’v had a FAA check during Covid.

The FAA told my chief to have our FA film our take off and landing with her iPhone and text it to him.

There’s no real PED policy enforcement because the operation would grind to a hault. I could even find a chapter in the FOM “the pilot shall keep the company informed for flight following”

Shooting off a text 10 prior to the incident won’t go into any column. I’m just saying it’s completely the norm.

And this is coming from someone who started a 135 from the ground up using talent from various SoCal top dogs. It is what it is.
 
Roger Roger said:
At our airline that would be expressly prohibited. Even at my old 135 shop that wasn’t done. I’ve heard crews use the WiFi for personal use while working and I imagine it’s not tightly enforced but why in the world would you give the company that to hang over your head?
Click to expand...

They don’t hang it over your head. Being a “team player” is how you get your raise, it’s how you get slotted into a better owners plane, it’s how you get that weekend off you wanted, it’s how you get a better hotel expenses, it’s how you get into the Gulfstream G550.

This isn’t the airline is my point.
 
T/O w/FSII said:
I’v had a FAA check during Covid.

The FAA told my chief to have our FA film our take off and landing with her iPhone and text it to him.

There’s no real PED policy enforcement because the operation would grind to a hault. I could even find a chapter in the FOM “the pilot shall keep the company informed for flight following”

Shooting off a text 10 prior to the incident won’t go into any column. I’m just saying it’s completely the norm.

And this is coming from someone who started a 135 from the ground up using talent from various SoCal top dogs. It is what it is.
Click to expand...

You're conflating two big differences. My guess is that your FOM, as well as every other 135 FOM has a line in there about PERSONAL use of a PED.

Also, in the deceaseds case, it interfered with her job. She was doing that instead of telling the CA to get his head out of his ass.

Any jet in the flight levels picking up ice is a big deal. Nahhhhh let's text the BF though...
 
T/O w/FSII said:
I’v had a FAA check during Covid.

The FAA told my chief to have our FA film our take off and landing with her iPhone and text it to him.

There’s no real PED policy enforcement because the operation would grind to a hault. I could even find a chapter in the FOM “the pilot shall keep the company informed for flight following”

Shooting off a text 10 prior to the incident won’t go into any column. I’m just saying it’s completely the norm.

And this is coming from someone who started a 135 from the ground up using talent from various SoCal top dogs. It is what it is.
Click to expand...
Sounds like it’s used as ACARS basically
 
If you are otherwise a troublemaker and the company is looking for ammunition against you, they will absolutely use breaking the PED/wifi policy against you as it’s something concrete that they can prove. Have heard of it happening other places, and I’m sure all airlines are the same in that respect. Why push that boundary?
 
Inverted said:
You're conflating two big differences. My guess is that your FOM, as well as every other 135 FOM has a line in there about PERSONAL use of a PED.

Also, in the deceaseds case, it interfered with her job. She was doing that instead of telling the CA to get his head out of his ass.

Any jet in the flight levels picking up ice is a big deal. Nahhhhh let's text the BF though...
Click to expand...
If the company and the local FSDO POI doesn’t give a damn about using your PED to tex a broker about how the pax’s are enjoying their gluten free chicken tenders they certainly don’t care about using a PED to say how your ride is to your BF.

I do think your assuming too much of what went on in the cockpit though.
 
Roger Roger said:
If you are otherwise a troublemaker and the company is looking for ammunition against you, they will absolutely use breaking the PED/wifi policy against you as it’s something concrete that they can prove. Have heard of it happening other places, and I’m sure all airlines are the same in that respect. Why push that boundary?
Click to expand...
Brother man this isn’t an airline.

For one they don’t have any IT to hold you accountable, zero overnight, and it’s even encouraged and sometimes “required”

This is how it is. You don’t have to like it, but I’m telling you as someone BIG on this side of the industry what’s like. I don’t like it either.
 
Inverted said:
You're conflating two big differences. My guess is that your FOM, as well as every other 135 FOM has a line in there about PERSONAL use of a PED.

Also, in the deceaseds case, it interfered with her job. She was doing that instead of telling the CA to get his head out of his ass.

Any jet in the flight levels picking up ice is a big deal. Nahhhhh let's text the BF though...
Click to expand...
I’m having trouble understanding the overly attached girlfriend need of ops to have constant checkins, even in flight. My old job working in remote Alaska with company HQ in Oregon and the medical dispatch in Washington state seemed to work just fine with flightaware and pre departure/after landing texts, and the sat phone as backup.
 
T/O w/FSII said:
If the company and the local FSDO POI doesn’t give a damn about using your PED to tex a broker about how the pax’s are enjoying their gluten free chicken tenders they certainly don’t care about using a PED to say how your ride is to your BF.

I do think your assuming too much of what went on in the cockpit though.
Click to expand...

One is work related, the other is not.
 
Roger Roger said:
I’m having trouble understanding the overly attached girlfriend need of ops to have constant checkins, even in flight. My old job working in remote Alaska with company HQ in Oregon and the medical dispatch in Washington state seemed to work just fine with flightaware and pre departure/after landing texts, and the sat phone as backup. Can’t see anything that happens between
Click to expand...

I mean I am somewhere in the middle I guess?

At NetJets, we had company-issued iPhones and were required to connect ot the onboard wifi, in case the company needed to get ahold of us or vise versa. We did use it to call FBOs ahead and arrange things here and there. But that was all work-related.

I am the last person in the world to rat anyone out for wifi use while flying, even in the 121 world. You wanna do it, it is all good. We know it is against the rules, but lots of people do it.

My issue is that she was texting her BF about picking up icing before they killed everyone. As the days go on, this is starting to smell like a South Florida 135 doing South Florida 135 things...

Culture speaks volumes. The normalization of deviance when it came to what happened in TEB, to the accident, are going to play a role in this accident. It reminds me of the Lear 35 crash in TEB. At first it seemed like a simple LOC accident until you peeled back the days, weeks and months with that crew. A much more damming picture was painted, which made that accident all the more startling.
 
Roger Roger said:
I’m having trouble understanding the overly attached girlfriend need of ops to have constant checkins, even in flight. My old job working in remote Alaska with company HQ in Oregon and the medical dispatch in Washington state seemed to work just fine with flightaware and pre departure/after landing texts, and the sat phone as backup.
Click to expand...
Follow the money. It’s a sales job vs an insurance billing.
 
Inverted said:
I am the last person in the world to rat anyone out for wifi use while flying, even in the 121 world. You wanna do it, it is all good. We know it is against the rules, but lots of people do it.
Click to expand...
Oh, same. But we both know if someone otherwise gets in trouble and the company starts digging, it’ll be held against them.
 
Parts are being found...

886726069_1836655927673892_5788954721751831744_n.jpg
 
Inverted said:
Oh come on. Texting your boyfriend when in the middle of significant weather while the CA does nothing?

I've flown enough 135, I know how it goes between communication with the company, broker, FBO etc. but don't put that in the same column as what she did.
Click to expand...

It sounds like one text. I’m not for it. But I don’t think 10 minutes prior one text is some ace in the hole.


In the separate CRW accident, the FO was basically texting a running commentary on pretty much her whole month with the CA and how he wasn’t that good.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
It sounds like one text. I’m not for it. But I don’t think 10 minutes prior one text is some ace in the hole.


In the separate CRW accident, the FO was basically texting a running commentary on pretty much her whole month with the CA and how he wasn’t that good.
Click to expand...

Agreed. One text takes a few seconds and doesn't cover the timeline. All the more freaking reason to get out of the damn ice!!!
 
MikeD said:
This kind of high speed descent, i could only imagine the structural forces they were likely hearing as they exceed maximum Mach, not sure if they would’ve heard the stab separation. The engines too, with the now extremely large
intake of high velocity air, the fans and internal components being pushed far past their design limits, compressor stalls if not possibly coming apart internally.

There’s going to be little to nothing at the impact crater, same as the couple of F-16 sites i was at in my time. Being upper transonic, if not nearing supersonic, that sheer amount of kinetic energy impacting the ground, those forces will be instantaneously dissipated through the weakest structure: the entire airplane. And you’re talking dissipated into small fragments, even the engine cores and landing gear structures. What small
aluminium pieces would survive, would likely be easily consumed by the explosion of the fuel. I would be very surprised if it can ever be determined what exactly happened when, along the known general accident timeline. Structural failure as something causal, or something resultant? May very well never be known with any certainty, only guessed. All that seemingly remains are some apparently found stab pieces, some brief ATC audio, and the aircraft records.
Click to expand...
I have zero familiarity with the L-60. If they indeed "gave up", could that have been because the yoke response would feel distinctly different with no stab as in ZERO feedback or just a "disconnected" feeling? Not saying that they did "give up", just thinking what rational may have been going through their minds (and most certainly different thoughts between the PIC/SIC).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top