Latest Eagle AIP rejected

[embraer07]

I think we're missing the point. It doesn't matter any more. It might if AAG comes full circle back to us but right now it doesn't. So if in fact this deal was torpedoed by the lounge 10%, how do we go about getting it back on the table? Seems like too little too late. So, I ask again....where do we go now? Business as usual? Quit and apply at home depot? Update the resume at airlineapps?

On the bankruptcy TA it was nearly impossible find a yes voter but it passed overwhelmingly. So what happened to those people? Did they just think it would work out, or did the reps misrepresent them?

To your first question: I don't know if we can get them back to the table. Especially after John Gardner's immature email. The company needs to save face now, and Parker will do that to a fault. Thank John Gardner next time you see him.

In regards to your second question: What happened to all the YES voters? Simple. The Eagle Loungers waged a large scale campaign to silence voices. Their mission to block the vote at the MEC level was a part of that campaign.

One of their primary targets for intimidation was the ORD FO rep Chris Murray. It got to the point where it was suggested that if he didn't vote NO his life at work would become very miserable. Guess who switched their vote that resulted in the AIP being rejected? You guessed it: Chris Murray.

That same group is now shifting and setting their sights on Mauricio as we speak. Many of these clowns aren't even ORD or MIA based. They were very good at pushing YES voters back into the shadows and even better at blocking the vote. They knew that if this vote went to the pilots it would more than likely pass. That is why it was so important for them to block the pilot group from having a vote at all.

At this point our only hope is that AA comes back to us sometime in the future. Even if they did we are looking at a couple years worth of stagnation and displacements as opposed to solid movement had the AIP passed.

But more than likely AA will simply forget Envoy even exists. PSA will "do whatever it takes" to secure larger aircraft from AA. Those are the exact words from their MEC. Piedmont is due to park all their Dash aircraft and receive replacements. Same for Air Wisconsin and their CRJ-200s.

Just watch: When the walls start to crumble around here Ray and his Eagle Lounge soldiers will use the excuse: "It was going to happen anyway..."

At that point I hope we all call them out for their bull. It's what we should have been doing these past couple of months.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

You must know that our negotiating committee is a couple line pilots, right? If alpa was serious about promoting our careers, they'd have used some of our dues money to hire professional negotiators. That may be emotional but it's also a fact.

A huge part of your dues money goes to the Representation Department, which is a fancy name for a big group of professional negotiators and contract enforcement attorneys. They're at every contract negotiating session, every step of the way. Are the pilots still in charge? Yes. But smart negotiators know when to listen to the professionals. Whether you have smart negotiators at the table is entirely up to your MEC.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Fair point.

But with a situation as grave as this - a threatened shutdown - the MEC needs to educate and let the membership decide. Again, just personal opinion as a former MEC'er and now a line pilot.

Obviously, I disagree. The same type of situation was at AirTran with our SLI. I supported the MEC's decision to vote down the deal. It wasn't good enough, so it had no business going out to the pilot group for a vote.

 

[derg]

You do know ALPA has professional negotiators in the room with the pilots. Seth Rosen, he is so good APA rented him from ALPA.

Seth Rosen is still around?

I know that guy!

Damn, I'm getting old. I know everyone.

 

[Gonzo]

Seth Rosen is still around?

I know that guy!

Damn, I'm getting old. I know everyone.

The man brings in more revenue than most of the airlines in ALPA.

 

[BobDDuck]

Yoda makes everything seem so much better.

It's funny you all call him Yoda. We called him Papa Smurf.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Fair point.

But with a situation as grave as this - a threatened shutdown - the MEC needs to educate and let the membership decide. Again, just personal opinion as a former MEC'er and now a line pilot.

The fact that it didn't go to a formal vote is irrelavant. The Reps that voted to kill this were unified in one thing- they spent a great deal of time polling the people they represent and voted in accordance with what they were told.

This shutdown thing is an empty threat. If the MEC really believed it, they'd have acted differently, and you and everybody else here knows it.

Sure, that might not be the way you did it at Colgan.. but hey.. what's Colgan up to these days anyways?

 

[Firebird2XC]

Yep, he is. As is Val and many of the most vocal NO voters. Talk about pulling up the ladder. Those guys are literally months away from AA and will not have to live with any consequences.

As for Ray: He is a pretty junior Captain. If and when the fertilizer hits the fan around here and the displacements begin he will be one of the first ones. I have heard from a couple of school house guys horror stories regarding Ray both in training and out on the line.

Next time you see Ray ask him why he demanded 12 hours of rest from crew scheduling once. After only one leg to the overnight. Then ask him why he spends 15 minutes building faux waypoints into the FMS because he feels uncomfortable flying the LGA departures in green world.

This is the guy leading the charge on the MEC and getting all the younger pilots riled up. We have been hijacked,

Hijacked? Not really. What we've seen here is representative democracy.

You seem pretty upset. What are you afraid of? You seem like you're pretty afraid of being caught up in a shutdown and having no place to go.

 

[Gonzo]

The fact that it didn't go to a formal vote is irrelavant. The Reps that voted to kill this were unified in one thing- they spent a great deal of time polling the people they represent and voted in accordance with what they were told.

This shutdown thing is an empty threat. If the MEC really believed it, they'd have acted differently, and you and everybody else here knows it.

Sure, that might not be the way you did it at Colgan.. but hey.. what's Colgan up to these days anyways?

I am willing to bet it was very much not an empty threat. The countdown started today with the vote, make no mistakes about it we have at best 3 years to get out of dodge.

 

[Firebird2XC]

I am willing to bet it was very much not an empty threat. The countdown started today with the vote, make no mistakes about it we have at best 3 years to get out of dodge.

Interesting to me that you'd think that way. A lot can change in three years.

I don't really see this happening. Time will tell, I suppose. People fear change, but the real truth is, change is inescapable. I think some people thought they could spend the rest of their lives at Eagle, and are just now finding out that that might not be true.

Every 30 years or so the business has a major paradigm shift. We're about due, now. Here's to living an interesting life. Cheers.

 

[JOEFRIDAY2]

Eagle isn't going anywhere until American figures out how to move the passengers that feed from Eagle into mainline. To put it another way, if American shut down Eagle tomorrow, they would lose half of their mainline passengers and would spill so much red ink that the airline would not survive. That's just plain economics. All of the legacy carriers have this same problem.

Second point, this crap at Eagle has been going on way before the merger. It's standard old style Airline Management 103.
Parker has stayed out of it. My guess is that will now change since the old guard couldn't get the job done.

God Bless Republic for putting out their notice 2 days ago. That was a big game changer here. That took Republic off of the table to pick up Eagle flights. That left Eagle management with no where to go.

It's now 2014. The regional airline industry has a whole new set of economics. Those airline managers that figure out the new economics will prosper. Those that don't will fail because the old numbers just will not work anymore.

Joe

 

[ross9238]

So far, XJT and RAH have told United that they won't be able to staff some of the flying. I don't know if this is rumor or fact, but it seems RAH is also having trouble staffing the AA deal. Now, they could just as well remove the 145s and move the pilots over to cover the AA flying. Either way, my point is that the MEC voting this down couldn't have come at a better time.

According to what Firebird said, the MEC listened to their pilot group and voted according to the group that they represented wanted. Could the communication letter have been better? Definitely. They could've done without the last paragraph because to me as an outsider, that made it seem like people will be out on the street tomorrow (which I hardly think will be the case).

The company can threaten with a Comair situation and it could possibly happen. There is nothing that says that regardless it wasn't going to happen. I think a lot of us are just tired of the status quo and what has been dealt to us on the regional level for a while now that we want change. If the repercussion of voting our TA's down is that it opens up more jobs at mainline down the line and improves the industry as a whole, I think I can live with that.

 

[BravoHotel]

While I have no dog in this fight, yet. It is interesting to keep up with the industry current events. It is good to see the pilots fighting back.

 

[cezzna]

Screw them to the wall. Divine justice some 20 years in the making!!

Standing ovation!!!

 

[mshunter]

*applause*

 

[HJB]

I love you guys. This makes me happy!

 

[Nark]

You guys are doing he right thing.

Congrats on standing up against a crap sandwich.

 

[Seggy]

This shutdown thing is an empty threat. If the MEC really believed it, they'd have acted differently, and you and everybody else here knows it.

Really? What would they have done differently?

Sure, that might not be the way you did it at Colgan.. but hey.. what's Colgan up to these days anyways?

Why the dig at Colgan? Colgan management is no more, but the pilots are doing very well. Most pre-merger Captains at Colgan are still Captains, making more than they were before the merger, interviewing at Delta, and furthering their careers.

 

[Seggy]

Hijacked? Not really. What we've seen here is representative democracy.

This isn't a democracy. This is a perfect example of what would happen if the Tea Party controlled politics. They would put on a show, but they can't govern.

 

[Seggy]

Interesting to me that you'd think that way. A lot can change in three years.

Weren't you saying that you would have upgraded three years ago at Eagle? Weren't you saying a few months ago that you guys would be getting CRJ-900s? Your predictions with Eagle haven't come to fruition.