Latest Eagle AIP rejected

Cptnchia said:
And another thread where ALPA elite seem to be out of touch with line pilots and attempt to tell us why they know better and we should just pipe down and listen to them.
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:rolleyes:

Hardly.

Do you think emotional decisions should be made or pragmatic well thought out decisions? Is it smart to have a vote after an open meeting where emotions were running high? Or is it better to sleep on it and come back the next day to have one more round of internal discussion and then the vote?

The vote was 5-4. To put out a communication like that without the MEC Chair at least signing it shows the MEC leadership is out of touch on how to lead.
 
Seggy said:
If that is the case, why was the vote 5-4?
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The 4 yes votes were from the two MIA reps both said they didn't like the AIP but majority of their pilots wanted the right to vote it down. The school house rep that not only liked the TA but said most of the pilots he represents were also in favor of the TA, and the ORD CA rep who wasn't in favor of the TA but said a good number of ORD CAs wanted to vote on it.
 
Seggy said:
:rolleyes:

Hardly.

Do you think emotional decisions should be made or pragmatic well thought out decisions? Is it smart to have a vote after an open meeting where emotions were running high? Or is it better to sleep on it and come back the next day to have one more round of internal discussion and then the vote?

The vote was 5-4. To put out a communication like that without the MEC Chair at least signing it shows the MEC leadership is out of touch on how to lead.
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You and I were not present at the meeting. If indeed it was heated and emotional I agree with you that everyone should have gone back to their rooms and came back in the morning. We used to have emotional and heated arguments, I was one of them, and we did just that. Now I think we were in a much different situation but the premise is still the same.
 
Cptnchia said:
And another thread where ALPA elite seem to be out of touch with line pilots and attempt to tell us why they know better and we should just pipe down and listen to them.
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Don't you think it says something that all of the militant rabble-rousers who get involved in union work end up several years later talking like Seggy and I? Many moons ago, I was the angry regional FO who thought that the MEC leadership was "out of touch" with the line pilots. Then I got involved (because I thought they were all incompetent), got years of experience under my belt, and figured out how things like bargaining, strategic communications, and the like really work. Believe it or not, people who fly airplanes and have never bargained for anything more than a car might not have all of the answers about bargaining, and maybe they should learn to listen to the people who have that experience. But hey, do what you want. It's your career.
 
roundout said:
Quite the opposite. Personally, my position is based on the fact that my peers at compass and sky west (maybe even republic, according to some stuff I've heard) are taking raises and improvements in the face of a shortage of pilots while I'm being told that I should make less and that it's a good thing. With thousands of federally-mandated retirements coming in the near future, it seems a company would be foolish to put 3000 pilots out to pasture. So for me it's numbers. Unfortunately I'm not much of a writer so it's easy to not get my point across effectively sometimes.
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My concern is that management may decide they don't have much of a choice. Eagle is somewhat different from Skywest, Compass, and Republic in that it has high seniority and mostly 50 seat jets. Therefore our costs are higher. If they can quickly farm the E-175s and the flow through out to PSA, PSA won't have trouble staffing or expanding and the regional market will be flush with 3000 jobless pilots.
 
Gonzo said:
The 4 yes votes were from the two MIA reps both said they didn't like the AIP but majority of their pilots wanted the right to vote it down. The school house rep that not only liked the TA but said most of the pilots he represents were also in favor of the TA, and the ORD CA rep who wasn't in favor of the TA but said a good number of ORD CAs wanted to vote on it.
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That isn't what @roundout is saying. So what is it?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Don't you think it says something that all of the militant rabble-rousers who get involved in union work end up several years later talking like Seggy and I? Many moons ago, I was the angry regional FO who thought that the MEC leadership was "out of touch" with the line pilots. Then I got involved (because I thought they were all incompetent), got years of experience under my belt, and figured out how things like bargaining, strategic communications, and the like really work. Believe it or not, people who fly airplanes and have never bargained for anything more than a car might not have all of the answers about bargaining, and maybe they should learn to listen to the people who have that experience. But hey, do what you want. It's your career.
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This is where most people get upset. Everything up to the bolder was good but the rest makes people feel like you are talking down to them. Just an observation.
 
Or maybe it's time to finally stand up to management and quit doing business the way ALPA has done it the last two decades because clearly that way hasn't been working.

Eagle management basically said, "Vote this down and we are done talking. We will shut you down and kick you all to the curb."

All the MEC said was, "Go for it bitches."

About time someone finally stood up and called their bluff. If nothing else, it will help to hasten the demise of the regional industry.
 
amorris311 said:
You and I were not present at the meeting.
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True.

If indeed it was heated and emotional I agree with you that everyone should have gone back to their rooms and came back in the morning.
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From my understanding it was a four hour open meeting with anyone who wanted to can come and speak. That is great. But then they should have tabled everything and had the vote tomorrow. Do you agree?

We used to have emotional and heated arguments, I was one of them, and we did just that.
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Yep.

Also, why didn't the MEC Officers at least put their name to that communication?
 
Seggy said:
That isn't what @roundout is saying. So what is it?
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Probably some of both. All I know is what I hear at work. Without seeing EVERY email people sent their reps we don't know. But I heard my version a lot, and I saw a LOT more traffic asking the mec to kill this than I did traffic asking for a pilot vote. though that could be the angry 20% effect. I did fly with a yes voter the other day. We had a good time and were professional about it.
 
Seggy said:
True.



From my understanding it was a four hour open meeting with anyone who wanted to can come and speak. That is great. But then they should have tabled everything and had the vote tomorrow. Do you agree?
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You know I agree.

Yep.

Also, why didn't the MEC Officers at least put their name to that communication?
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I have no idea.
 
Seggy said:
True.



From my understanding it was a four hour open meeting with anyone who wanted to can come and speak. That is great. But then they should have tabled everything and had the vote tomorrow. Do you agree?



Yep.

Also, why didn't the MEC Officers at least put their name to that communication?
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Could it be an honest mistake? Everybody here has been under a tremendous amount of stress. I imagine the alpa volunteers have been feeling 10 times what the average line pilot has.
 
It also wouldn't surprise me if John Gardner wrote that unilaterally, though that isn't an argument to your point, because I don't disagree with you.
 
More importantly, we are now at a critical point. The whole regional industry, which is changing rapidly, is at a crossroads and was waiting for the results of today's meeting. We have that result now. So where do we go from here? Does eaglevoy close and send 3000 pilots to the street? If they do, how many would go to other regional airlines? My guess is not many. Especially not to psa and mesa, the new AAG growth regionals. Many would gladly go to a legacy, but, well, wouldn't we all? Some senior folks would bail, some would go anywhere. How would a direct entry captain opportunity change the mindset of the folks who otherwise wouldn't start over? Would alpa get us preferential hiring, and how would that affect the average line pilot at, say, xjt? Or maybe eaglevoy just keeps on trucking. Somewhere between those extremes must lie the future.

I wish everybody here the best of luck in getting through this tumultuous time. Keep an eye on your crews and do your job safely.
 
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