Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
Absolutely nothing to back it up. They just seem to be following the same path other airlines have just 10-15 years behind.
Labor relations turns ugly at Southwest
- Thread starter SlumTodd_Millionaire
- Start date
pianokeys
MEL NO MUFFS
People will look at management doing union jobs and wonder why management hasn't filled it, and begin to think about overtime coverage that now doesn't exist because management is covering the union job. Yes, if someone non-union does cover a spot it will help the outcome (maybe), and it will benefit the customer (maybe), but, thats not the agreement that was struck between the two parties. Defeats the purpose of the agreement, perhaps.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
If you're not given the resources how can you do anything? If they aren't getting the staff to keep on their work what exactly are they suppose to do? Miracle the planes off the ground full of the correct bags?
This is the penalty to understaffing your operation and not approving OT.
Groundpounder
Quitter
That part I understand, but having a body on the ramp, but saying that body can't chip in and help because "it's not his/her job" baffles me.
B767
Well-Known Member
Not to one-up you (because I'm not a one-upper), 1:31 turn in Toronto before. Supposed to be 29 minutes, and, same as you, nothing went wrong. Absolutely terrible station.
nabbyfan
Well-Known Member
That's what was frustrating.... Sometimes I would be at the bottom of the belt helping out an agent..... They step away for a second and I stay to keep the process going. Hardcore Union guy drives by and sees you at the end of a belt and instead of stopping to help, he grieves it so someone in the OT book can get an hour of OT for doing nothing. It's all a game
Minuteman
I HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT AUTOMOTIVE LIGHTING!
Once there is a rigid agreement in place, it is more difficult to either reward performance or abuse with extra burden. My guess is that there is a sense that making the customer happy will not translate into any benefit for the risk of modifying the agreement.
It is mostly in his absence that I am amazed and how much of Southwest's success can be attributed to Herb Kelleher. Somehow he was able to perpetuate a corporate culture and hire the right people, know about so much of what was going on outside of his office and ensure it was being done well (and still have a couple of drinks at lunch!). His departure and the extra attention the local FSDO started giving Southwest after the fuselage skin doubler problems in 2009 have turned that airline into just another legacy operation (in my opinion), and their attrition and outsourcing are blossoming into a company of specialists ("I don't know"/"not my job"). Remember, they have about ~100 employees for each aircraft, only ~10 of which are pilotos, I think.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
That isn't a strictly union thing. Since my wife doesn't work there anymore I can actually say this. DGS is an abortion, they need a flipping union yesterday, they wallow in the filth of poor management top to bottom and when the crap hits the fan they sacrifice their own to make Atlanta happy, never really fixing the problem.
They are as non union as it gets and Southwest union ramp works harder and better any day of the week.
Furthermore I worked a non union ramp job and I did that same crap. 3 days of the dumb bleeps sticking me and another guy on a 757 on our own with a full 212 and over cap bins 5 days a week. We did it for 3 days, day four was my work slowdown and when they took they delay I flipped the bird at the sup. That was my republican antiunion days. Wanna do quick turns on a 737 understaffed? Lot's of luck!
I'm writing quickly so please don't take this as firing a broadside. This crap happens ay non union shops all the time and I've got years of working in it and 2x as many watching the girlfriend turned wife do it and the union shops are more productive. Maybe their pay is more than what their productivity earns, but don't confused a few bad eggs in a union group for worse than the few bad eggs in every non union group.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'm not sure why it's difficult to understand why someone would be pissed off that you're stealing his job.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
For ATC?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Won't it be amusing when he gets to NATCA and realizes that TWU 555 is a bunch of sissies by comparison?
nabbyfan
Well-Known Member
I fully understand the thoughts behind Covered Work and I support Unions. I didn't become a Sup to be a jerk, I was just bored at being a Ramp Agent and wanted more responsibility. My thing with Covered Work is, I understand grieving it if we aren't giving out OT, and then Supervisors are loading flights. But if I'm literally just out there to help out and you catch me loading 5 bags by myself....grieving that is a little silly. But hey, it was my fault for being in a situation where I technically violated the contract.
And Yep, I'm at the Academy currently for ATC. Not even thinking or worrying about NATCA or anything else until I hopefully get through the classes and then report to my facility ( which is unknown until the day after we graduate!). But I'm sure its a night and day difference between NATCA and TWU555.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
You should be happy that people take their contract seriously. I know you felt you were doing a good thing and it might have even helped. The problem is that short term fix creates a long term problem. This is why people today work harder than ever to get the same pay with no increases in sight.
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
I'm gonna dissent here. You will never see a ramp with 100% supervisors doing a ramper's job. Why? Because IT COSTS TOO MUCH MONEY.
Say you have 10 gates and each gate needs an additional body to get the flight turned on time. Each gate obtains the help of a supervisor. The supervisor makes $35K plus benefits and is employed whether an additional ramper is hired. An additional ramper would cost $12/hour plus benefits. OR a current ramper makes the agreed-upon overtime rate. When that ramper drives by and grieves for the overtime, the company and union go through a process to determine the outcome of the grievance. If the ramper wins, the company has saved the money by not hiring a new ramper and not having to pay the supervisor overtime, thus freeing a ramper to do other work. In other words, if the company empowers a supervisor to lend a hand and nobody says anything about it, then they save on the overtime. If somebody says something, they get the overtime, as per the agreement.
On the other hand, FORCING the company to hire another employee takes money out of your pocket.
Say you have 10 gates and each gate needs an additional body to get the flight turned on time. Each gate obtains the help of a supervisor. The supervisor makes $35K plus benefits and is employed whether an additional ramper is hired. An additional ramper would cost $12/hour plus benefits. OR a current ramper makes the agreed-upon overtime rate. When that ramper drives by and grieves for the overtime, the company and union go through a process to determine the outcome of the grievance. If the ramper wins, the company has saved the money by not hiring a new ramper and not having to pay the supervisor overtime, thus freeing a ramper to do other work. In other words, if the company empowers a supervisor to lend a hand and nobody says anything about it, then they save on the overtime. If somebody says something, they get the overtime, as per the agreement.
On the other hand, FORCING the company to hire another employee takes money out of your pocket.
bksslc
Well-Known Member
The covered work issue was negotiated, and agreed upon by management. There is no excuse for violating the CBA. If I show up late for work, I get a point, per the CBA. 7 points, I get fired. We all know the rules and need to abide by them.
Supervisors get paid to make sure people are where they should be, when they should be there, and doing what they're supposed to be doing. As well as issuing overtime to fill the holes as needed, and various other administrative tasks. They are not there to do my job. That's why I'm there. Do not do my job!
Respect the contract, follow the rules, or suffer the consequences.
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
That's not the way it works in a legal sense, otherwise there wouldn't be a process to make parties "whole". A contract is as concrete as interpretation and when a party violates it, another party may invoke the grievance process. Where it gets tricky is when people believe that a contract should never be violated and get emotional about it. In the ramp argument, the process worked as intended. Furthermore, a contractual agreement is not "rules", it's an "agreement". This is a very important distinction. The process is covered by rules and regulations.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Um, no.