KCM

Avalon781ML said:
As for "you guys did it wrong." I'm at a loss for words. You got something for free (whether I like it or not) and then you have nerve to criticize it? Wow... I think that is the definition of a freeloader.
Click to expand...

I let that part go when I responded initially, but since you brought it up in quoting Foxy...

This shows the total ignorance that many people have about what it takes to get a program like KCM up and running. I don't know why people don't understand that as we constantly read about the gridlock that effects our government, and the FAA and DHS move slow even for government agencies. It's the same as pilots telling a negotiating committee or MEC "well, just tell the company we want XYZ". It doesn't work that way.
 
Lobbying costs money folks, and ALPA needs your donations.

Of course, pilots won't be able to equal management level funding, but it helps!
 
We are still, complaining about this?

I'm happy all flight crew members get to use KCM, the fees that are paid for use in my opinion make it "ok" for not being a part of the union. If they, whoever they are, determine it isn't maybe they should up the non alpa member fee.
 
Avalon781ML said:
Absolutely... and ALPA does. By negotiating higher wages/benefits it gives non union carriers a measuring stick to go to their managements and say "Hey XYZ company makes X/hour... we operate similar equipment and similar route structures... we should be compensated similarly." But contrarily, when ALPA dues go to fund specialized groups to work with the TSA to make KCM happen shouldn't the people who paid for the system to be developed, tested, and implemented get to use it? Why does SKW or RAH feel they have a "right" to use a system they had no part of until after all the expensive bits and pieces were paid for? I have no problem with them using the system as long as they pay ALPA an "program entry" fee or something similar to share the financial load.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I can understand that. I was under the impression that an airline paid a fee for that. We are part of KCM, so it is all new to me.
 
ALPA did the legwork, but it's a government program, correct? Last I checked, the government is for everybody, even non-ALPA members.

If I form a group and petition the state to build a road, no matter how much money I spend in that process I don't get to limit access to that public road to only my group's members. I see KCM the same way. ALPA put a lot of work in to make the government screening process better for ALL crew members. Doing things for the common good is the mark of a good, socially responsible organization.

Thank you ALPA. And as far as I'm concerned, any crew member is welcome in line with me at the KCM checkpoint.
 
Last edited:
Nark said:
@Seggy I haven't paid dues in nearly ~18 months (I'm still in good standing, figure that one out).
Click to expand...

That is not that hard to figure out. You are on military leave until you can upgrade.

I have no idea what circle-J things happen at CAPA when IBT the powers at be meet up.
Click to expand...

Not much in regard to help with KCM.

What I do know, is that RAH foots our KCM (and CASS)bill.
Click to expand...

Once again it is a small amount compared to what heavy lifting ALPA did and has done. ALPA Members have paid EVERYTHING (from a labor stand point) to get KCM in place. That is just a fact, I consider it freeloading.
 
poser765 said:
Does it really matter what IBT did?
Click to expand...

To me yes, because I consider it freeloading.





Was KCM ever ONLY thought of as a service for ALPA members? Honest question I really don't know. Everything I read on the website said flight crews...not ALPA flight crews.
Click to expand...

Yes, but it would have never been put in place if it was only for ALPA members or even pilots. Hence why FAs and non-ALPA Carriers are allowed to use it.
 
SpiceWeasel said:
Would be nice if non-ALPA members could donate to the PAC.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of legal issues with that.

What would be nice is if every ALPA FFDC FO paid $100.00 a year, every ALPA FFDC CA paid $250.00 a year, every ALPA Larger Jet Carrier FO paid $500.00 a year, every ALPA Large Jet Carrier CA paid $1000.00 a year. It would be BY FAR the largest PAC in DC then.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
ALPA did the legwork, but it's a government program, correct? Last I checked, the government is for everybody, even non-ALPA members.

If I form a group and petition the state to build a road, no matter how much money I spend in that process I don't get to limit access to that public road to only my group's members. I see KCM the same way. ALPA put a lot of work in to make the government screening process better for ALL crew members. Doing things for the common good is the mark of a good, socially responsible organization.

Thank you ALPA. And as far as I'm concerned, any crew member is welcome in line with me at the KCM checkpoint.
Click to expand...

No, by your reasoning it would be like a Lockheed Martin shareholder getting a stock dividend if a large defense contract was awarded to Boeing because it was a 'government' contract.
 
Seggy said:
No, by your reasoning it would be like a Lockheed Martin shareholder getting a stock dividend if a large defense contract was awarded to Boeing because it was a 'government' contract.
Click to expand...

Ummm, negative. False analogy.

I'm talking about public use. Things like roadways, schools, TSA security checkpoints, public parks, etc. If you come visit my fair city, nobody is going to say "You can't sit in this city park because you don't pay taxes here." Same with KCM. It's not an ALPA program. It's a government program that was championed by ALPA.

I'm an ALPA member, and have been nearly my entire 121 career, yet I'm fine with SkyWest or whatever airline enjoying the benefits of KCM. ALPA fought to get KCM because it made things better for the membership, and because it's for the public use, they cannot and should not restrict it's use to members only.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Ummm, negative. False analogy.

I'm talking about public use. Things like roadways, schools, TSA security checkpoints, public parks, etc. If you come visit my fair city, nobody is going to say "You can't sit in this city park because you don't pay taxes here." Same with KCM. It's not an ALPA program. It's a government program that was championed by ALPA.

I'm an ALPA member, and have been nearly my entire 121 career, yet I'm fine with SkyWest or whatever airline enjoying the benefits of KCM. ALPA fought to get KCM because it made things better for the membership, and because it's for the public use, they cannot and should not restrict it's use to members only.
Click to expand...

Did ALPA restrict it? No.

But, that doesn't mean there are freeloaders of the system.
 
KCM. Great idea, too bad TSA doesn't allow a patent or copyright. Nothing left to do now but groan, moan, stigmatized, rile up and divide. 8 pages of evidence to prove it.
 
ASpilot2be said:
Fair enough. I can understand that. I was under the impression that an airline paid a fee for that. We are part of KCM, so it is all new to me.
Click to expand...
No worries... I know you... I know you are new and not aware of what went into it. Do I hold you personally responsible? No. Do I think your carrier should benefit from KCM? No but then again my new carrier is represented by IBT and I'm happy that we don't participate in KCM. I'm not proclaiming "ill will" towards people I'm just saying if y'all didn't pay for it perhaps you aren't entitled to the benefits that go along with ALPA membership.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top