KCM
- Thread starter Seggy
- Start date
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
What if that company's uniform is a Hawaiian shirt, cargo shorts, and flip flops?!
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Things just don't work like that when it comes to programs involving the government.
Unless you like seeing closed-access private utilities or private roads build on public land, that's a good thing.
The bottom line is that it still benefits ALPA members, regardless of who uses it, and it doesn't hurt ALPA members for others to use it. Ill-will toward other authorized, paying users is a special form of selfish mental retardation that seems to be oddly rampant in aviation.
And by the way, if it cost a lot of money to implement KCM, you guys did it wrong.
-Fox
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Your position presupposes that there is room for various competing solutions.
Does that make sense?
-Fox
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Do you really think that they can just increase or lower dues on a whim because of one program? There is a finite amount of money and last I checked, the IBT and/or RAH didn't put the resources to try to get it implemented, improved like we are seeing here, or lobby to make sure this type of program is protected.
ALPA did the heavy lifting. Your company is just paying an administrative fee for the servers.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
So if it didn't cost that much to implement then why don't we make sure those that weren't a part of paying for it to be implemented aren't allowed to use it until they give their fair share of the implementation costs?
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
There is a competing solution... You walk your happy ass through the regular TSA checkpoint and get groped by a Smurf.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Nark
Macho Superpilot
My point mr derg, is that we as IBT, represented crew(s) do pay for the program.
@Seggy. I acknowledged the fact that ALPA did the heavy lifting, of which I'm thankful for. However today, we are a full paying member, so stop accusing those of us who aren't part of the members only jacket club of being a freeloader.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
If you are a full paying member than explain to me what the IBT or RAH did to get this expanded into more airports, and more specifically, any involvement with the TSA to improve the program.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Two syllables. Maximum. Go.
Nark
Macho Superpilot
@Seggy I haven't paid dues in nearly ~18 months (I'm still in good standing, figure that one out). I have no idea what circle-J things happen at CAPA when IBT the powers at be meet up.
What I do know, is that RAH foots our KCM (and CASS)bill.
@Seggy your the same blue falcon who watches some deice their windshield with a credit card, when you're holding an ice scraper.
@Derg I haven't paid you, specifically, a cent to peruse this website and yet I reap the reward of what it entails.
The more we harp about unity as a profession, the more some people cry about "pay your dues because I did."
What I do know, is that RAH foots our KCM (and CASS)bill.
@Seggy your the same blue falcon who watches some deice their windshield with a credit card, when you're holding an ice scraper.
@Derg I haven't paid you, specifically, a cent to peruse this website and yet I reap the reward of what it entails.
The more we harp about unity as a profession, the more some people cry about "pay your dues because I did."
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
The TSA will not allow a bunch of methods of access the secure side. KCM is the standard for flight crews, and as such it needs to support non-ALPA pilots who pay the program fee (or have it paid by their airline). It can't be a private portal run by the TSA.
Not going through the normal TSA checkpoint is the whole point, and ALPA doesn't get to keep it to themselves just because they came first. Talking about just going through the TSA line as normal is off the subject.
Further, to deny non-ALPA pilots something, or to say that they freeload is not nice. Many of us do not have the hours or fortune to work for an ALPA carrier, but we need to make our flight or our commute just like you do.
The KCM program is not hurt by our presence. We pay part of the cost of running the program.
Lots of little words.
-Fox
poser765
Well-Known Member
Does it really matter what IBT did? I mean really matter at all beyond a petty "mine" attitude? From all of us over in the IBT, thank you for your heavy lifting! Now are you seriously being taken advantage of as a dues paying ALPA member by us playing with your toy?
Was KCM ever ONLY thought of as a service for ALPA members? Honest question I really don't know. Everything I read on the website said flight crews...not ALPA flight crews.
I have no idea.
My angle is that after 9/11 and the nine-millionth hoop to jump through in order to establish that we were safe with a yoke and not so with a leatherman, there was a push to 'rationalize' flight crew screening.
My feebile middle aged memory may fail me, but the only entity at the time that was putting forth financial resources and lobbying for this was ALPA. Then the ATA (now, A4A) got onboard (somewhat) and we were finally able to get the system built and approved.
As far as I know, the only people with financial skin in the game was ALPA (primarily) and ATA/A4A and non-ALPA carriers and a slew of flight attendants essentially got a free ride into the system without the original time and money investment.
I may be wrong, and that's cool, but that's my understanding of it.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
This has absolutely nothing to do with KCM. The fact that non unionized airline's employees are benefiting from (non safety related) advances brought about mostly by union lobbying dollars is very frustrating for those supporting that lobbying capital either through finances or time. If Skywest and Virgin America and all the other non union carriers are able to constantly reap the benefits of ALPA (and APA and IBT and SWAPA) lobbying and negotiations, there is no incentive for them to unionize to make their world a better place. Without that incentive they will just fly along the way they are and never actually participate (financially) in the process of making the industry a better place. Whether it's things like KCM or "industry average" pay resets, those non union shops are constantly reaping the rewards of other pilot's work without doing any of their own work and that's why a lot of us get angry.
adk
Steals Hotel Toilet Paper
I agree that KCM should be available to all US air carrier crews, but the "we pay fees!" argument does not evaluate the full picture. Non ALPA carriers are helping to pay for the gas the keep the car (KCM) running, but ALPA (and other parties) spent quite a bit of money on the car itself.
Avalon781ML
Well-Known Member
Absolutely... and ALPA does. By negotiating higher wages/benefits it gives non union carriers a measuring stick to go to their managements and say "Hey XYZ company makes X/hour... we operate similar equipment and similar route structures... we should be compensated similarly." But contrarily, when ALPA dues go to fund specialized groups to work with the TSA to make KCM happen shouldn't the people who paid for the system to be developed, tested, and implemented get to use it? Why does SKW or RAH feel they have a "right" to use a system they had no part of until after all the expensive bits and pieces were paid for? I have no problem with them using the system as long as they pay ALPA an "program entry" fee or something similar to share the financial load.
What should non union carriers do with KCM? Unless they are willing to pay an entry or utilization fee I think they should have no part of the benefit.... no KCM for them... if you don't want to pay you have a perfectly acceptable way of getting to work and its called the normal security line. Frankly I don't think Flight Attendants should be able to use KCM either since they didn't pay as well...
I don't harbor any ill will towards other people... I just don't think its right to use a program that you didn't pay for.
As for "you guys did it wrong." I'm at a loss for words. You got something for free (whether I like it or not) and then you have nerve to criticize it? Wow... I think that is the definition of a freeloader.