KBTL Hawker 800 crash

[CK]

I have no idea how Hawker wings are attached but given my limited experience I'd guess it isn't easy to remove them.

It is a once piece wing held on by links. Easy to remove from the aircraft by removing the links, but it would be hard to rip one off inflight.

 

[knot4u]

It is a once piece wing held on by links. Easy to remove from the aircraft by removing the links, but it would be hard to rip one off inflight. View attachment 86216

Sounds similar to a Lear. If you have all the right equipment (stand's, lifts, slings) removing and installing the actual wing isn't the hard part of the job, it's prepping the airplane (remove engines and mounts, remove tip tank or winglet, remove MLG, disconnect all control cables, hydraulic lines, fuel lines and anything else that's in the way).

 

[knot4u]

I'm still wondering what maintenance was done on that airplane and if the crew was qualified to conduct those tests. Has Duncan said anything?

 

[SteveC]

I'm still wondering what maintenance was done on that airplane and if the crew was qualified to conduct those tests. Has Duncan said anything?

What crew qualifications are you referring to?

Quite a few pilots in this thread have given first-hand experience with performing stall tests on this model. Maybe they can help?

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

I'm still wondering what maintenance was done on that airplane and if the crew was qualified to conduct those tests. Has Duncan said anything?

There’s no specific qualification to do the tests. If you can legally the plane, you can do the stall tests.

Generally the only reason a Mexican hawker goes to Michigan for a few weeks is inspection. The stall check is done after C check, or if more than two panels are removed. It was either A or B. Otherwise, you don’t do the stall checks. Nobody does them for the hell of it. Idk if the 3rd was a mechanic or otherwise.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

There’s a video out there and it looks like a wing is missing. Pretty much shows the airplane corkscrewing towards the ground. One of those videos I could only watch about 2 seconds of it. I can’t remember what social media page I seen it on

It’s a one-piece wing, I can’t picture a failure that results in loss of one side. Maybe the outer portion portion of one side.

 

[Crockrocket94]

These are the same planes that can take a missile and keep on flying.... Doubt the wing fell off.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

These are the same planes that can take a missile and keep on flying.... Doubt the wing fell off.

Take a missile, land on a grass strip, get put back together and keep flying for another 20+ years.

 

[DropTank]

Idk if the 3rd was a mechanic or otherwise.

Likely a mech, but not 100% sure.

If the mechanic won't fly on the test flight, neither will I.

Turned down a few test flights for such reason.

 

[knot4u]

What crew qualifications are you referring to?

Quite a few pilots in this thread have given first-hand experience with performing stall tests on this model. Maybe they can help?

I asked the question because I didn't know if it was similar to the Lears, a manufacturer approved test pilot was required for the stall tests. I have no idea what I would've done the first time I got into a stall/spin if I didn't have an instructor with me. So what you're saying is these folks are pushed into the darkest portion of the airplanes envelope with no actual training? I've said it before that I don't like Hawkers and this just solidifies it.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Likely a mech, but not 100% sure.


If the mechanic won't fly on the test flight, neither will I.

Turned down a few test flights for such reason.

I don’t think it was

Likely a mech, but not 100% sure.

If the mechanic won't fly on the test flight, neither will I.

Turned down a few test flights for such reason.

If it was a Duncan Tech, I’m pretty positive that their insurance will prohibit this in the future.

The only reason they wouldn’t want to be in is because of horror stories, conversely the only reason they would hop on no problem is because of a lack of experience with them. Tbh I don’t really base much on that. I ask to see the work cards and talk to the tech that calibrated them. If they know what they’re doing- then it’s kinda irrelevant.

 

[SteveC]

Can’t find it now, but from what I read elsewhere the third was a mechanic from the Mexican company.

 

[DropTank]

I don’t think it was
If it was a Duncan Tech, I’m pretty positive that their insurance will prohibit this in the future.

The only reason they wouldn’t want to be in is because of horror stories, conversely the only reason they would hop on no problem is because of a lack of experience with them. Tbh I don’t really base much on that. I ask to see the work cards and talk to the tech that calibrated them. If they know what they’re doing- then it’s kinda irrelevant.

They have their standards, I have mine.

Mech screws up, we die together.

 

[knot4u]

Likely a mech, but not 100% sure.

If the mechanic won't fly on the test flight, neither will I.

Turned down a few test flights for such reason.

I recall once once being at a field near San Diego and doing some tuning on a LR35 with DEECs. The "captain" had just returned from FlightSafety initial and the sic seemed nervous. I'd only done some minor tweaking on the computers and my job was pretty much done after we went to the blast fence for engine runs. I'd set up my mobile office in a room at the back of the hangar to print up my log entries when the owner came in and tried to insist that I needed to go on a test flight. When I told him it wasn't required and I had no intention of getting airborne in his machine he went apoplectic. I called my boss immediately and told him I wasn't going flying with these folks and I'd just bring the truck home and start looking for a new job. Someone called the owner and talked him down. The airplane went for a test flight and landed while I was eating a meatball sandwich a few blocks away.

 

[DropTank]

I recall once once being at a field near San Diego and doing some tuning on a LR35 with DEECs. The "captain" had just returned from FlightSafety initial and the sic seemed nervous. I'd only done some minor tweaking on the computers and my job was pretty much done after we went to the blast fence for engine runs. I'd set up my mobile office in a room at the back of the hangar to print up my log entries when the owner came in and tried to insist that I needed to go on a test flight. When I told him it wasn't required and I had no intention of getting airborne in his machine he went apoplectic. I called my boss immediately and told him I wasn't going flying with these folks and I'd just bring the truck home and start looking for a new job. Someone called the owner and talked him down. The airplane went for a test flight and landed while I was eating a meatball sandwich a few blocks away.

k...

 

[CFI A&P]

I don’t think it was
If it was a Duncan Tech, I’m pretty positive that their insurance will prohibit this in the future.

Whenever I’ve did a post maintenance test flight at Duncan, they did not come along, nor did they even ask. Granted it wasn’t stalls with a Lear or Hawker, but seemed to be normal.

Come to think of it, out of all the post maintenance flights I’ve done at the various MROs, I can’t recall a technician ever coming with us.