R
Roger, Roger
Guest
Hey don't worry, they'll get to enforcing that right after they're done checking flight attendant fire extinguisher training to make sure they have ( or don't have) a hose.
Kalitta 727 FO
- Thread starter Bandit_Driver
- Start date
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Not according to the FAA-approved FOM our company uses.
It's the old "it's not duty, but it's not rest" argument...
subject to interpretation of the individual FSDO...
Dugie8
Well-Known Member
FSDO has no authority to interpret, zero, none.
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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=44.008249,-92.396528
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
Wow, after reading that interpretation it seems pretty darn cut and dry.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Dugie8
Well-Known Member
Does your GOM have an FAA stamp that says approved or accepted?
Dugie8
Well-Known Member
General operations manual. Think of it as a plain language version of OpSpecs with more operator specific stuff.
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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=44.008400,-92.396549
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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=44.008400,-92.396549
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
I have to be honest - since I don't have the book in front of me, but I can't for the life of me recall seeing either stamp in the book.
However, our checklist says "FAA Approved"...
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
It'll be on the List of Effective Pages.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
I'll look at it tomorrow (I don't bring work home with me, lol)...
so, I logged into the company intraweb, and our checklist on the site has the FAA stamp on it, but the manuals do not have the FAA stamp on them...
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
It is all in 121 suppliment ops. Completely different from Domestic, International, and Flag ops. Why do you think the fed was trying to move to one 1 reg for all. Another good example is look at the fuel reserve requirements. Another good one is under domestic you don't need an alternate. Under Supplimental you must have an alternate on your flight plan for every flight.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Martin, et al, just looked through my books today, and as I thought, no stamp at all. Where might the stamp reside?
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Not only that, under supplemental rules, operators can change the flight/duty requirements based on where in the world you're operating. Not sure if you guys have to deal with that, but we do on a regular basis. Cover 10 time zones, and then get less restrictive rest rules; sounds like a winning combination! The FAA really needs to step this thing up. And really, thank god for autothrottles. They are a lifesaver when landing in the middle of the night when everyone has been up 20+ hours.
Anyway, I don't mean to derail this thread, but those interested in getting into supplemental ops should do some research on what the rules entail. Most of the time things are okay, but become familiar with how your body reacts to fatigue in case you get a trip that really stretches you to your limit. I have some basic guidelines that I follow for myself to mitigate fatigue (though, I did not say eliminate), and I manage fine. I also usually have the option of saying "Hey guys, I'm not well rested, I'll just be the IRO tonight if that's cool." Some places do not have that luxury.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
IRO...we don't that luxury...
WacoFan
Bigly
I along time ago - like 2006-2007 there was some guy on APC that I interacted with about USA Jet (or something). They flew DC-9's out of Michigan, I think into Mexico. They hired with really low time, and the thought of flying VOR approaches into some weird airport in Mexico in a steam guage DC-9 gave me a woody. This job, flying 727's and such is the same. What an awesome gig this would be when I'm semi-retired. Just an awesome gig. Not as awesome as flying mail in a Waco JYM, but awesome nonetheless.
Vapor Lock
Well-Known Member
I think our books have electronic stamps on every page
Vapor Lock
Well-Known Member
[h=5]§ 135.273 Duty period limitations and rest time requirements.[/h]"(a) For purposes of this section—
Duty period means the period of elapsed time between reporting for an assignment involving flight time and release from that assignment by the certificate holder. The time is calculated using either Coordinated Universal Time or local time to reflect the total elapsed time.
Rest period means the period free of all responsibility for work or duty should the occasion arise."
I think it's pretty clear. So sure, on call is not technically duty but the important part is that it is NOT REST and rest is what is actually required. We are not limited to certain duty periods other by extrapolation. We are required to have rest periods. On my monthly tracking form I have to graph when I am on duty. It would be much more effective if I actually had to graph rest instead. Yup, sure would be nice to get some enforcement on this one.
Duty period means the period of elapsed time between reporting for an assignment involving flight time and release from that assignment by the certificate holder. The time is calculated using either Coordinated Universal Time or local time to reflect the total elapsed time.
Rest period means the period free of all responsibility for work or duty should the occasion arise."
I think it's pretty clear. So sure, on call is not technically duty but the important part is that it is NOT REST and rest is what is actually required. We are not limited to certain duty periods other by extrapolation. We are required to have rest periods. On my monthly tracking form I have to graph when I am on duty. It would be much more effective if I actually had to graph rest instead. Yup, sure would be nice to get some enforcement on this one.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Rest is only required under 121 Subpart S (Supplemental rules) after flight duty. There is no requirement for "look-back" like there is in 135 and 121 Domestic rules. 24/7 reserve is unfortunately totally legitimate, and widely practiced.