Jetblue Tail Strike On Departure

[BobDDuck]

The display is for SA, there is a possibility you could miss a plane depending on what range the screen is set at.

Most guidance (both Company and Aircraft) says that the actual display isn't to be used for any traffic avoidance purposes as the actual location plotting can be inaccurate. The only thing you actually use TCAS for is vertical separation. And honestly, if I took a quick look as I was rolling on the runway and saw a TCAS target 3 miles away at 900 feet I'd write it off as a helicopter or ag plane or something like that, especially if I didn't have an ADS-B feed showing a tail number or callsign that would trigger "airplane" in my head.

 

[BlueMoon]

Most guidance (both Company and Aircraft) says that the actual display isn't to be used for any traffic avoidance purposes as the actual location plotting can be inaccurate. The only thing you actually use TCAS for is vertical separation. And honestly, if I took a quick look as I was rolling on the runway and saw a TCAS target 3 miles away at 900 feet I'd write it off as a helicopter or ag plane or something like that, especially if I didn't have an ADS-B feed showing a tail number or callsign that would trigger "airplane" in my head.

Honestly, plane at departure end at 900’. I’d probably figure they just departed. Then again i don’t go to untowered fields very often, let alone this field in particular. Maybe once a year and that’s being generous.

 

[knot4u]

Should the crew on the ground have been looking "inside" ?

Or should the crew on the ground have been looking "outside"?

Isn't that why there's more than one pilot?

 

[CFI A&P]

Isn't that why there's more than one pilot?

By regulation: airline, aircraft type certificate.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

I'd assume if both airplanes had TCAS and it was working they would've been alerted. If both airplanes were equipped, the system was functional and someone was paying attention maybe this would not be an issue, but those are the sort of holes that sometimes seem to line up in the Swiss cheese model. I can see the traffic at an airport sitting in an airplane in a hangar oftentimes when I'm working on it. I don't know, if they decide to investigate at least both aircraft are available for inspection and they're not sifting through wreckage, unfortunately that also means they might not dig that deep. Time will tell.

Tcas doesn’t work on the ground or below certain altitudes but we all know what happens when people assume.


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[phoenix 23684]

This is an interesting incident. As a 121 operator I can say that we would never depart an uncontrolled field in IMC/VMC condition without first speaking to someone, Center, FSS, etc. Will be curious to see if it was an ATC slip, did the KA cancel, etc. I would also expect the JB crew to announce themselves on CTAF. One of the final items prior to entering the runway on an Airbus is to put TCAS on TA/RA mode from Stby mode, so who knows if the crew did it in sequence, or a little earlier to see traffic. I can’t say about JB, but in my carrier we put our ND in ARC and 10, TCAS on Above, so it should have shown the KA on the display, emphasis on should. Was this a 321 or 320? The airbus is a bit pitch sensitive at times on take off, so you have to be mindful of the rotation rate. What if it was a new pilot in IOE, who knows. To be honest my scan is not at the ND during the high speed portion of a take-off and as other have mentioned, TCAS won’t bark at that point. Now lets assume the crew did not feel the tail hit, it is extremely possible, after watching the video I would expect the rear FA to have felt it and called the cockpit after sterile at the very latest. So how did they managed to get to FL310? Who noticed the tail strike at an uncontrolled field to then let ATC know? I would love to read the final report once it comes out so I can learn from this incident. Glad for the good outcome.

 

[Baronman]

One of the final items prior to entering the runway on an Airbus is to put TCAS on TA/RA mode from Stby mode, so who knows if the crew did it in sequence, or a little earlier to see traffic. I can’t say about JB, but in my carrier we put our ND in ARC and 10, TCAS on Above, so it should have shown the KA on the display, emphasis on should. Was this a 321 or 320?

It was a 320. We never put our TCAS into Stby mode (procedure).

 

[BlueMoon]

Could the acars send a likely tail strike message to MX and maybe they acars the crew? I’m not sure how advanced the MX computers are on the newer Airbi or how real time the info is.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

Would ya believe I haven’t updated my profile in a decade or so? Again, skills are perishable. Unless you’re flying GA on the side I’d highly doubt that folks at major airlines are operating at nontowered airports frequently.

You'd be surprised. We have fields with closed towers all the time when arriving late or departing early.


some tidbits on the airbus tcas. Reference only and not all inclusive.

The Airbus TCAS automatically goes into TA ONLY below 1000' AGL.
Some advisories are inhibited when the intruder is below 380' and the airbus is below 1700' AGL
All TA audio message below 600 AGL in climb and below 400' AGL in descent are inhibited