Jetblue Tail Strike On Departure

[MikeD]

@MikeD has talked about this before, but a modern transport category jet does not have a cockpit that is designed for see and avoid. On both the 32X and the 330, at the speeds that we fly in the terminal area, I can reasonably "see" just a bit of the airspace directly in front of me. In a turn or change of altitude, that area decreases even more. That's one of the problems with operating a transport jet in non radar, uncontrolled airspace. You can do it just fine, but the risk equation drastically increases.

The risk equation indeed increases, and the only thing you can do is the best you can with your limitations. Even with todays traffic safety systems, there may be uncontrolled fields you’re going in and out of where some GA may have no transponder, negating TCAS or TIS/TAS systems protections, and may also be making inaccurate radio position calls or even none at all. That leaves accurate and timely position calls on our end, and seeing and avoiding to the best of our cockpit view limitations (737 isn’t much better than the Airbii), as all we have. Which indeed ups the risk.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

All this thread is

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[Roger Roger]

These airports should have ATCTs. Any airport with that amount of airline activity should have one even if it is seasonal.

Idaho would probably call that a federal infringement on their sovereignty.

 

[CFI A&P]

Idaho would probably call that a federal infringement on their sovereignty.

“Cliven Bundy Sovereign Territory tower….”

 

[MikeOH58]

The lack of knowledge of untowered airport operations displayed after this statement is why indeed that would be my first thought as well. Look, 121’s statistically way safer than 135 and 91. That’s because of the standardization and checking. No arguments whatsoever with that.
But bluntly, 121 is almost always vectors to an ILS final at a big airport. You’re good at what you do regularly. If I were to fly into ORD I’d probably screw some stuff up and get laughed at a fair bit because that’s not a regular part of the job, although I can (and do) occasionally do it. Same with airlines going to nontowered fields. Frankly I’ve heard worse from airliners than Bonanzas. Incorrect direction pattern (when they even at least have the courtesy to try to fly one), lack of radio calls, wrong radio calls, cutting off traffic, blocking taxiways and runways…I’ve seen it all.

seen it all in 1,100 hours! Wow, we are so lucky to be graced with your experience on this forum. Goodluck when you eventually fly into O’hare

 

[Richman]

My fleet goes to a fair number of fields where the tower is closed before 1st departure. I've got a lot of time going into and out of uncontrolled fields, both IFR and VFR, part 91, 135 and 121.

In my Bonanza, easy peasy. I'm on my own, doing my own thing, on my own time, check the WX, any TO notes and notams, and off we go. Hardest part there is figuring out who the hell to call for a clearance/release, since after a zillion years, they still can't make it clear on the chart that you can pick up East Woebegone Approach on the ground at West Woebegone Municipal (although the phone number thing makes it slightly easier).

At the airline, a whole other kettle of fish. 121, it's a full contact sport, especially IFR. You'd think it'd be the same, but it's not. Like circling approaches of yore, it is somewhat of an art form to do it without considerable hassle.

Yampa is a whole other category of PITA. Non-radar, 1 plane in, 1 plane out, non-tower with plenty of VFR traffic and 135s doing whatever the hell is easiest for them. Toss in some de-icing and trying to make a void time, and yea, it's a sporty time.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

My fleet goes to a fair number of fields where the tower is closed before 1st departure. I've got a lot of time going into and out of uncontrolled fields, both IFR and VFR, part 91, 135 and 121.

In my Bonanza, easy peasy. I'm on my own, doing my own thing, on my own time, check the WX, any TO notes and notams, and off we go. Hardest part there is figuring out who the hell to call for a clearance/release, since after a zillion years, they still can't make it clear on the chart that you can pick up East Woebegone Approach on the ground at West Woebegone Municipal (although the phone number thing makes it slightly easier).

At the airline, a whole other kettle of fish. 121, it's a full contact sport, especially IFR. You'd think it'd be the same, but it's not. Like circling approaches of yore, it is somewhat of an art form to do it without considerable hassle.

Yampa is a whole other category of PITA. Non-radar, 1 plane in, 1 plane out, non-tower with plenty of VFR traffic and 135s doing whatever the hell is easiest for them. Toss in some de-icing and trying to make a void time, and yea, it's a sporty time.

I used to hate leaving SAV early in the morning. We always had a departure that was either 10 minutes prior to the tower opening or right on the dot. I’d usually just recommend we wait because it was always a poo show as everyone else just did what was convenient to them.

 

[Richman]

I used to hate leaving SAV early in the morning. We always had a departure that was either 10 minutes prior to the tower opening or right on the dot. I’d usually just recommend we wait because it was always a poo show as everyone else just did what was convenient to them.

The 121 operators are at least somewhat predictable, because what's good for you is probably the same for them.

The 91/135 folks. Well, "let's just stay out of their way" seemed to be the best course of action.

 

[MikeD]

The 121 operators are at least somewhat predictable, because what's good for you is probably the same for them.

The 91/135 folks. Well, "let's just stay out of their way" seemed to be the best course of action.

At MZJ here, when the airliners are launching or entering the pattern, they are more than likely not familiar with the field, oftentimes being their first time in or out. If im doing work in the pattern or the infield grass or something, I simply give way to them and remain out of their way…..either landing in the grass or the taxiway, or if airborne, just working over to west side of the field if no parachute activity is going on, until they land or depart. Just one less thing for them to have to pay attention to at an unfamiliar field. At worst it costs me a few minutes, no biggie. Every now and again, I’ll get an airliner crew who hears pattern calls being made before they make their first one, and have said things to the effect of “any way we can fit into there without messing up the flow too much?”; which is very courteous and I always come back with “do what you need to do, maneuver where you need to, I’ll remain out of your way, no worries.”. And I’m happy to do so. Makes everything easy and worry free for everyone.

 

[pwttogfk]

seen it all in 1,100 hours! Wow, we are so lucky to be graced with your experience on this forum. Goodluck when you eventually fly into O’hare

Would ya believe I haven’t updated my profile in a decade or so? Again, skills are perishable. Unless you’re flying GA on the side I’d highly doubt that folks at major airlines are operating at nontowered airports frequently.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

The 121 operators are at least somewhat predictable, because what's good for you is probably the same for them.

The 91/135 folks. Well, "let's just stay out of their way" seemed to be the best course of action.

I’d usually recommend that we just push and wait for the tower. Everyone would want to depart in the direction they were headed. Paid by the minute, I’m rarely in a hurry.

 

[Richman]

I’d usually recommend that we just push and wait for the tower. Everyone would want to depart in the direction they were headed. Paid by the minute, I’m rarely in a hurry.

This. I'm not sure what the fuss is all about.

 

[roundout]

This. I'm not sure what the fuss is all about.

LaTe k!CkOfF fLiGHts cAuSe doWnLiNe DeLaYzzzzz

 

[Richman]

LaTe k!CkOfF fLiGHts cAuSe doWnLiNe DeLaYzzzzz

Sorry, you're coming in garbled and stupid.

 

[roundout]

Sorry, you're coming in garbled and stupid.

Oh my heck

 

[T/O w/FSII]

Sorry, you're coming in garbled and stupid.

The irony of this post.

He was agreeing with you, so now you look like the stupid one.

 

[Richman]

The irony of this post.

He was agreeing with you, so now you look like the stupid one.

Sorry, I don’t speak Gamerzdoodspeakz.

 

[Minuteman]

I understood what was meant with the implied tone.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

LaTe k!CkOfF fLiGHts cAuSe doWnLiNe DeLaYzzzzz

YOURONGUARD!


MEOW


LETSGOBRANDON

 

[Wardogg]

The aircraft continued a normal departure and climbed to FL310, when Denver Center forwarded a message to the crew stating they had a tail strike on the departure runway. The crew subsequently decided to divert to Denver,CO (USA) where the aircraft landed on runway 35R without further incident about 45 minutes after departure from Hayden. There were no injuries, the aircraft sustained substantial damage however.

Wait a minute. Who sent a message to center? Why did the crew not know until they were told? And if they did know, why did they wait until center told them to decide to divert?