JetBlue hires violent felon as a pilot

ppragman said:
Totally agree (though I’d say broken homes in general whether it’s a mother or a father are bad for society and probably correlate strongly with incarceration), so let’s fix that in our culture.

Still, once they’re out, what are we going to do with them? And are they getting rehabilitated or are they just biding their time in purgatory to wait to age out of crime?

Literally everyone agrees things aren’t working, so what are we going to do about this. I don’t think punishing people in perpetuity is going to be a valid solution to society’s woes.
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You're trying to treat the symptom of a problem rather than addressing the root cause. There will always be criminals regardless of what we do, I think more time should be spent preventing people from turning into convicts than trying to rehabilitate them. If you cut your finger do you wait for the blood to dry before you put a band-aid on it, or do you try to figure out how to not cut your finger?
 
knot4u said:
You're trying to treat the symptom of a problem rather than addressing the root cause. There will always be criminals regardless of what we do, I think more time should be spent preventing people from turning into convicts than trying to rehabilitate them. If you cut your finger do you wait for the blood to dry before you put a band-aid on it, or do you try to figure out how to not cut your finger?
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Have you ever been sick? Some times you treat both the symptoms and the underlying condition…

Society is much more complicated that we all think. There is never a single solution to any of these sorts of problems.

Change the culture, change the prison system, change the way money works, etc. it’s a lot.

But instead of bitching about it, what do you want to do to fix it - and I don’t mean rant on the internet - what are you going to do today in furtherance of fixing this?

We are a part of society so we can’t expect society to solve any our problems for us because… well it’s us. How do you recommend we proceed? What are you going to do?

Because right now we just had a former inmate who was going to be putting money into the economy who’s probably not going to anymore… this is a net loss for everyone, so what do we do so that this sort of thing doesn’t happen anymore?
 
knot4u said:
You're trying to treat the symptom of a problem rather than addressing the root cause. There will always be criminals regardless of what we do, I think more time should be spent preventing people from turning into convicts than trying to rehabilitate them. If you cut your finger do you wait for the blood to dry before you put a band-aid on it, or do you try to figure out how to not cut your finger?
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Ok. So what’s your plan for keeping fathers in the home? And just to be clear, I agree with you fully that fathers are needed.
 
ppragman said:
Have you ever been sick? Some times you treat both the symptoms and the underlying condition…

Society is much more complicated that we all think. There is never a single solution to any of these sorts of problems.

Change the culture, change the prison system, change the way money works, etc. it’s a lot.

But instead of bitching about it, what do you want to do to fix it - and I don’t mean rant on the internet - what are you going to do today in furtherance of fixing this?

We are a part of society so we can’t expect society to solve any our problems for us because… well it’s us. How do you recommend we proceed? What are you going to do?

Because right now we just had a former inmate who was going to be putting money into the economy who’s probably not going to anymore… this is a net loss for everyone, so what do we do so that this sort of thing doesn’t happen anymore?
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I've done my part by not contributing to the problem by not even considering crime as an opportunity. Like I said, look at the commonalities shared by the incarcerated people and and start there. In the meantime we have our prison system to keep those who've proven they can't be trusted to live within the boundaries society has set. I think promoting the family unit would be a good start, not enabling single parent households.
 
mwflyer said:
Ok. So what’s your plan for keeping fathers in the home? And just to be clear, I agree with you fully that fathers are needed.
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I have no idea. I know that having my dad around to sometimes "correct" me when I was a kid kept me out of trouble. It seems like dudes just drop a bomb on a lady and walk away these days, and apparently no one thinks anything about it, it's been normalized. I don't know how to change the zeitgeist.
 
knot4u said:
I've done my part by not contributing to the problem by not even considering crime as an opportunity.
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this is not enough, sorry try again. If you want to fix societal problems we have to handle them ourselves there’s no one else who will solve them for us. If you don’t want to fix it, well, you can complain about it sure, but don’t expect me to listen to you.

knot4u said:
Like I said, look at the commonalities shared by the incarcerated people and and start there.
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you don’t think this might be a bit misleading because of historical reasons?

knot4u said:
In the meantime we have our prison system to keep those who've proven they can't be trusted to live within the boundaries society has set.
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right but literally everyone recognizes it’s terrible and ineffective - and we can’t just turn on a dime, so how are we going to solve this problem?

the prisons are even part of the problem… and people come out worse a lot of the time

knot4u said:
I think promoting the family unit would be a good start, not enabling single parent households.
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I agree - how do we do that without the millions of single moms and dads out there who exist now being penalized? How do we do that without making divorce impossible - because we don’t want the money stuck with the abusive father either?

Do you have kids by chance? I’ve got 3 - and I reckon we’d have a lot better outcomes if two parents didn’t have to work full time to support a family… how do we get that going?
 
ppragman said:
this is not enough, sorry try again. If you want to fix societal problems we have to handle them ourselves there’s no one else who will solve them for us. If you don’t want to fix it, well, you can complain about it sure, but don’t expect me to listen to you.



you don’t think this might be a bit misleading because of historical reasons?



right but literally everyone recognizes it’s terrible and ineffective - and we can’t just turn on a dime, so how are we going to solve this problem?

the prisons are even part of the problem… and people come out worse a lot of the time


I agree - how do we do that without the millions of single moms and dads out there who exist now being penalized? How do we do that without making divorce impossible - because we don’t want the money stuck with the abusive father either?

Do you have kids by chance? I’ve got 3 - and I reckon we’d have a lot better outcomes if two parents didn’t have to work full time to support a family… how do we get that going?
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You're complaining about me complaining and neither of us have a definitive answer, so what's your point? I agree that if both parents didn't have to work to support a family it would help, but you hate everything Leave It to Beaver represented, and I guarandamntee that's not how I grew up, but it is how both of my parents did.
 
knot4u said:
You're complaining about me complaining and neither of us have a definitive answer, so what's your point? I agree that if both parents didn't have to work to support a family it would help, but you hate everything Leave It to Beaver represented, and I guarandamntee that's not how I grew up, but it is how both of my parents did.
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You don’t know me or the stuff I’m doing, but believe it or not I actually do stuff to try to fix these sorts of problems in my community. I’m only one person, so I can only do so much, but yeah. Start by knowing your neighbors then try to do something to fix the problems you come across. The most basic step is to try to work for campaigns that want to help working class people… tell me again who that is?

I actually would like to see a world where one income could raise a family… it doesn’t need to be the leave it to beaver world - because that didn’t exist for all people in America, but yeah. My wife stayed home with our kids while I was flying and making the bacon until I got sick then we swapped rolls - so it is possible, but not unless you’re making decent money.

But, yeah, I want that standard to exist for everyone if they want it. hmmm if only there were a group of people trying to work to better people’s material conditions…I wonder what they’d call themselves?

But yeah, I’d say poverty and broken homes are likely the root of the vast majority of crime, let’s fix that!
 
knot4u said:
I have no idea. I know that having my dad around to sometimes "correct" me when I was a kid kept me out of trouble. It seems like dudes just drop a bomb on a lady and walk away these days, and apparently no one thinks anything about it, it's been normalized. I don't know how to change the zeitgeist.
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Raise peoples material conditions, better sex Ed in school, teaching people about the ramifications of their actions too - we could find chess clubs or something I don’t know, but the best solution I can see is raising peoples material conditions man.

If people are struggling to get by they can’t be good parents because all their energy is focused on making sure they can keep a roof over their head and feed their kids… and I don’t know about you, but when I’m chronically stressed out about stuff I can be a real • - some people handle that in different ways… but fight or flight is a real thing.

You can keep a higher percentage of dads at home if staying at home and doing the right thing is less scary than cutting and running. Because, ultimately at the end of the day,even • dead beat dads are only people.
 
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knot4u said:
No. If you want to solve the issue you have to start long before a person commits a felony. Let's talk about common factors regarding incarcerated people, I'll suggest one and you can respond, lack of a father in the home growing up.
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This is where we part ways on the topic. I grew up with no male role model. My Nigerian father was returned to sender, when he was caught "Nigerianing" aka filandering. I have several uncles, but they were into fixing cars, fishing, hunting type stuff. And as a kid I was more into arts, reading, writing and drawing. We didn't click. But they tried. My mom married my step father when I was 16 yrs. old. It was pretty much over by then. I was an more or less a fully formed adult at that point. My point, as a father-less child I have yet to to commit capital murder, or any varying forms of murder. Or any sex related crimes. Sh-t I don't even have a single misdemeanor. While having a father might be the result of some individuals fall into crime. I'd hesitate to group all people born without a mother or a father figure in their life as being more prone to commit felonious crimes.
 
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Maximilian_Jenius said:
This is where we part ways on the topic. I grew up with no male role model. My Nigerian father was returned to sender, when he was caught "Nigerianing" aka filandering. I have several uncles, but they were into fixing cars, fishing, hunting type stuff. And as a kid I was more into arts, reading, writing and drawing. We didn't click. But they tried. My mom married my step father when I was 16 yrs. old. It was pretty much over by then. I was an more or less a fully formed adult at that point. My point, as a father-less child I have yet to to commit capital murder, or any varying forms of murder. Or any sex related crimes. Sh-t I don't even have a single misdemeanor. While having a father might be the result of some individuals fall into crime. I'd hesitate to group all people born without a mother or a father figure in their life as being more prone to commit felonious crimes.
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Just because you as an individual didn’t enter a life of crime doesn’t mean that it isn’t statistically more likely.
 
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