JetBlue Announces an Ab Initio Program

[ChasenSFO]

Just found out about this. Is 220TT with a PPL "over-qualified"? I know some Asian airlines won't take you if you have any time but instead will offer a different program which usually requires a significant(in comparison) amount of time, often in the 121 environment.

 

[BobDispatch]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...p-hiring-on-start-from-scratch-pilot-training

Other ICAO carriers are doing it. I was just wondering who the firs US carrier was going to be.

 

[Tommay85]

Perhaps they are just trying to get ahead of what may be the inevitable, but there are PLENTY of people out there that would work there after a half second of thought. Seems unnecessary. The regionals/other entry level jobs need this, not jetBlue it seems.

I prefer our way of "dues paying" over the rest of the world. Learn from an experienced captain (crew), or go scare yourself into good judgement (single pilot). I'd rather we didn't go in this direction. I might be wrong, but the US carriers are the safest IIRC.

 

[Boris Badenov]

It makes a certain kind of sense. I still maintain that there are lessons in airmanship which are more likely to be learned the traditional way, but it's hard to put metrics on that. On the other hand, it's fairly easy to see (and measure) the benefits of training your pilots the "airline X way" from day 1. The cynic in me might observe that having a captive workforce is...eh, "liberating" when it comes time to negotiate...

 

[Tommay85]

It makes a certain kind of sense. I still maintain that there are lessons in airmanship which are more likely to be learned the traditional way, but it's hard to put metrics on that. On the other hand, it's fairly easy to see (and measure) the benefits of training your pilots the "airline X way" from day 1. The cynic in me might observe that having a captive workforce is...eh, "liberating" when it comes time to negotiate...

Indeed. I'd be interested in any specific problems. Some get set in their ways, sure, but I'm willing to bet the majority of pilots out there, especially new hires, are willing to be flexible at a new company. Mergers and SOP changes, I'd expect problems and/or resistance, but new hires? I'm curious.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Performance metrics and pursefights aside, doing the math is instructive. Figure the cost to train and then somehow manage to fly a pilot to 1500 hours is...I dunno, let's say $200,000 (random WAG). In order to make this work out economically, they only have to squeeze $200,001 out of the fresh pilot guy over the entire course of his career. This would probably be paid for simply by the decrease in training events from people leaving as soon as a better things comes along at the Regional level...but even at the LCC level, that happens. And then there's the massively increased leverage from having, again, what I can only imagine would essentially be an indentured workforce, at least until they get some PIC time under the belts. Smart. Kind of evil, but smart.

Edit:

Oh ho ho!

Prospective pilots would pay for their own training.

I stand corrected...VERY evil!

 

[Mountain Man]

There are so many different avenues in aviation, this sounds like it could limit options.

 

[Beefy McGee]

"Prospective pilots would pay for their own training"

And it says after that training, they would go work for another company to build up to 121 mins. Then they could either go to another airline or go back to JetBlue.

So... depending on the price, this might not be that different from regular pilot training. I don't see anything yet that indicates it will be pay-for-a-job time building like Gulfstream etc.

If you pay to go from zero to commercial multi, then go work for some company (assuming with pay) to build hours to one day go back to JetBlue, how is that any different from going to some flight school, then getting a job to build hours? The only difference I see so far is that a person in this program has a job offer from JetBlue already in hand.

This is assuming the cost of initial zero to CMEL training is at a normal cost (say $60,000 zero to hero, seems typical these days), and the follow-on time building is paid at a wage in line with normal wages for that entry level time building job, rather than candidates paying for their flight time during the time building phase.

Might not be a bad program once all details are out.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Yeah upon more careful reading, it sounds like Comair Academy Take 2.

 

[bigD1031]

Recent article on the program from Bloomberg.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...p-hiring-on-start-from-scratch-pilot-training




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tommay85]

Yeah upon more careful reading, it sounds like Comair Academy Take 2.

Careful reading after 10PM isn't my forte. Working on it...

 

[Boris Badenov]

Careful reading after 10PM isn't my forte. Working on it...

AFAICT, I made the most egregious reading mistakes. And since I don't MAKE mistakes, neither did you.

Q.E.D.

 

[Mike Wise]

New article by forbes, has a bit more info.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kathryn...-u-s-acceptance-of-global-training-standards/

 

[Mike Wise]

New article by forbes, has a bit more info.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kathryn...-u-s-acceptance-of-global-training-standards/

 

[Gonzo]

On the bright, I think that this could be a great program if it catered to training up some of its employees to be pilots , such as line guys, gate agents, and flight attendants. You can't really call it skipping the line if you're already in the family!

I hope it is like that, a good friend of mine is a FA at B6. Has about 250TT and an airport management degree but ran out of money to finish her ratings. She really would rather be up front than in the back.

 

[Gonzo]

The number of applicants in this last window was down 50%, FWIW.

It's not indentured servitude. No one is forcing anyone to participate. It will give people who are talented, but financially unable, a chance to be a pilot. That's a good thing.

Why do you think the number of applicants was down so much?

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

Why do you think the number of applicants was down so much?

Who knows? We are still getting plenty of qualified applicants. But I think people stop applying after a while if they don't get a call.

Next year is going to be a smaller hiring year, at about 150 for the year. That's less than 1/2 what we did this year, and a third of the year prior. I think attrition has been a lot lower than forecast, so hiring has backed down.

 

[Mike Wise]

Just to point out, the Forbes article does state :

The program also does not address one of the main issues in pilot recruitment – the cost of acquiring an air transport pilot certification – well over $100,000 – plus the additional cost necessary to reach the required 1,500 hours. JetBlue candidates will have to pay the as yet unspecified cost of their own training which will be done by a third party flight training organization such as Flight Safety International or CAE

And:

After completing the initial phase, pilots will become instructors, employed by the training partner, to build hours during months 16 through 40 just as they do in traditional programs.

Isn't this essentially what ATP/everyothermajorflightschool does? Except now instead of an interview or pipeline with a regional, you get a spot with an LCC?. Could be advantageous for some I guess...

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

Just to point out, the Forbes article does state :

The program also does not address one of the main issues in pilot recruitment – the cost of acquiring an air transport pilot certification – well over $100,000 – plus the additional cost necessary to reach the required 1,500 hours. JetBlue candidates will have to pay the as yet unspecified cost of their own training which will be done by a third party flight training organization such as Flight Safety International or CAE

And:

After completing the initial phase, pilots will become instructors, employed by the training partner, to build hours during months 16 through 40 just as they do in traditional programs.

Isn't this essentially what ATP/everyothermajorflightschool does? Except now instead of an interview or pipeline with a regional, you get a spot with an LCC?. Could be advantageous for some I guess...

Yes, that's essentially true. The big difference is that JetBlue is going to aggressively screen the candidates ahead of time. That alone should save a bunch of people money. I would rather find out on the front end that flying isn't for me.

At any rate, I don't think there is anything to see here. It's merely a program to create a pipeline of individuals who are chosen prior to training. There's no difference between them and someone who did the flight training/time building first then gets chosen. They are trying to prepare and think outside the box so if the hiring landscape shifts dramatically they have some resources available. Keep in mind this is a tiny pool of people each year. We have several "Gateways." Most of our hiring is not through one of the specialized Gateway programs though. I doubt that it ever will become a major part.

 

[amorris311]

I hope it is like that, a good friend of mine is a FA at B6. Has about 250TT and an airport management degree but ran out of money to finish her ratings. She really would rather be up front than in the back.

Is she a new hire FA at B6?