JetBlue Announces an Ab Initio Program

[Cptnchia]

Well, see, they're not going into the machines that go "Ping" until they have the requisite experience. But when they do, they're going to do things like not stall an airplane just 'cause they lose pitot tube heat... they're gonna rock.

Why do I get the feeling that this same thing was said, in French, at one time also.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Why do I get the feeling that this same thing was said, in French, at one time also.

I remember something about being doomed to repeat history as well, but I can't put my finger on it. I forget. Oh, never mind.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

AF447 - autopilot disengage no primary flight displays, so most definitely yes. How many PAX do we need to kill with ab initio students at the controls to prove that this is a bad idea?

Well, if the AP disengages and you have a plane with no primary flight displays because you lose pitot heat... Yeah, that's not a training problem. Good training would still help, but, NO, not a training problem. See the issue? #flyboeing

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Well, if the AP disengages and you have a plane with no primary flight displays because you lose pitot heat... Yeah, that's not a training problem. Good training would still help, but, NO, not a training problem. See the issue? #flyboeing

JetBlue flies Airbus and Jungle Jet products...

 

[Deleted member 27505]

JetBlue flies Airbus and Jungle Jet products...

That's not the point. The point is... "if the AP disengages and you have a plane with no primary flight displays because you lose pitot heat... Yeah, that's not a training problem."

 

[Cptnchia]

That's not the point. The point is... "if the AP disengages and you have a plane with no primary flight displays because you lose pitot heat... Yeah, that's not a training problem."

The training problem is that they did not recognize what was going on. Delta had an A330 do the same thing not long afterwards. Different outcome. Why? Because the Delta crew was able to use their experience, gained over a long time, to recognize the issue and take proper corrective action.

You can't train experience into people.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

That's not the point. The point is... "if the AP disengages and you have a plane with no primary flight displays because you lose pitot heat... Yeah, that's not a training problem."

Yep it is an experience problem. Hence, my concerns.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

The training problem is that they did not recognize what was going on. Delta had an A330 do the same thing not long afterwards. Different outcome. Why? Because the Delta crew was able to use their experience, gained over a long time, to recognize the issue and take proper corrective action.

You can't train experience into people.

Uh, YES, you can.
That's precisely what good training does... Gives pilots the experience to correlate and apply knowledge to unexpected situations. Else, why train at all?? To pretend that we're doing stuff and meeting regulatory requirements by checking boxes???

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Yep it is an experience problem. Hence, my concerns.

How's that? Because you've experienced the same situation before?? If yes, then, well, how did you rectify it the first time? Through vast experience????

Yes, we need better training.
Yes, Airbus avionics need improvement.
Can't we all just get along??

 

[Cptnchia]

Uh, YES, you can.
That's precisely what good training does... Gives pilots the experience to correlate and apply knowledge to unexpected situations. Else, why train at all?? To pretend that we're doing stuff and meeting regulatory requirements by checking boxes???

I thought we trained knowledge and then took that knowledge and applied it repetitively over a period of time to gain experience.

 

[Cptnchia]

@Crop Duster you seem pretty spooled up about this issue. Almost like you're the program manager for it or you have some type of connection to it. What gives?

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

@Crop Duster you seem pretty spooled up about this issue. Almost like you're the program manager for it or you have some type of connection to it. What gives?

I'm thinking something along those lines. And my concerns will not even remotely affect this program...

 

[Deleted member 27505]

@Crop Duster you seem pretty spooled up about this issue. Almost like you're the program manager for it or you have some type of connection to it. What gives?

Nah. Just an advocate for good training... and lots of it. Also, might have had too many beers at that vendor social.

 

[z987k]

That's not the point. The point is... "if the AP disengages and you have a plane with no primary flight displays because you lose pitot heat... Yeah, that's not a training problem."

I agree that airbus has an issue, but if you can't fly an aircraft without the PFD, well you don't belong in it.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I agree that airbus has an issue, but if you can't fly an aircraft without the PFD, well you don't belong in it.

I'm willing to bet that a large percentage of crews, Delta included, would have crashed that plane just the same. The design philosophy of that plastic piece of crap needs to go.

 

[moxiepilot]

So the company states that:

- they currently have thousands of qualified applicants when the window is open
- it is prohibitively expensive for pilots to accumulate experience and then be hired by a 121 operation
- a new approach is needed

I believe that's called indentured servitude.

Seems like there is a solution that people have been suggesting for years now. Let's just ignore that, now shall we?

 

[chrisreedrules]

What would happen if all the major/legacy airlines announced that they were starting an initio programs and that 30% of their pilots would come from this route starting in 2020 and 50% in 2025? Is it possible that the majors will create a permanent "regional class" of pilots? Or would everyone just quit?

 

[uncreative]

It seems pretty forward thinking to me. I can see them getting the 1500 hour requirement reduced under this program as well. If you're a young person looking to be an airline pilot, doesn't a sure slot at JetBlue sound a lot better than getting jacked around at the regionals for an unknown amount time for a possible shot at a 'real' airline, with a 200K student loan debt monkey on your back the whole time?

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

So the company states that:

- they currently have thousands of qualified applicants when the window is open
- it is prohibitively expensive for pilots to accumulate experience and then be hired by a 121 operation
- a new approach is needed

I believe that's called indentured servitude.

Seems like there is a solution that people have been suggesting for years now. Let's just ignore that, now shall we?

The number of applicants in this last window was down 50%, FWIW.

It's not indentured servitude. No one is forcing anyone to participate. It will give people who are talented, but financially unable, a chance to be a pilot. That's a good thing.

 

[TallFlyer]

The number of applicants in this last window was down 50%, FWIW.

Did recruiting send out an update after the window closed like they did for the last one? I'd be very interested in reading it.