Jeju Air 737-800 gear up landing slams into wall

Richman said:
Deserved or not, they brought the attention on themselves. This is just the fallout.

That’s what you get when you listen to the stock market for your engineering advice.
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True. But MCAS was still flyable.


I’m far more POed about the plug door blowout (and not because it’s shop). The door plug blowing out is 100% on Boeing. Nothing any airline could have done in the first 12 months of ownership to catch that mistake. When you buy a car, you don’t rip panels off to inspect the sheet metal behind.
 
Richman said:
Deserved or not, they brought the attention on themselves. This is just the fallout.

That’s what you get when you listen to the stock market for your engineering advice.
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I agree that it is the penance for sins committed years ago now, but at this point, it is starting to just get irritating. In the way that a guy saying he saw a HAL jet with an engine fire leave Seattle, called POS, and let them know, and fortunately the POS contacted ATC who contacted the pilots and they turned around, thanks to this dude. People have no idea how anything works in any segment of the world, let alone aviation. But they all think they do because they can google and reddit. They are • morons. I'll say to all of them, with respect to Air India, and this mishap......told ya so, dumb a**es. But I guess we can also continue to intentionally try to undermine the #51st (or so) US corporation for altruistic purposes. Because they are of course all idiots who built this weird unexpected fuel kill switch into software for no reason. The only solution is of course alphabet tech. They don't ever f*** everything around them up every single time.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
True. But MCAS was still flyable.


I’m far more POed about the plug door blowout (and not because it’s shop). The door plug blowing out is 100% on Boeing. Nothing any airline could have done in the first 12 months of ownership to catch that mistake. When you buy a car, you don’t rip panels off to inspect the sheet metal behind.
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100%. And that is when I got annoyed that these idiots were trying to blame Eskimo. You gotta be F'ing kidding me
 
But how did this explain landing half way down the runway? I'm assuming if they had landed close to the threshold, they could have come to a full stop without reverse thrust.
 
arkavgal said:
But how did this explain landing half way down the runway? I'm assuming if they had landed close to the threshold, they could have come to a full stop without reverse thrust.
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Everyone who has struggled with a power-off-180 for their Commercial checkride knows that spot-landing while engine-out is a challenge.

Now try it while you are so keyed up with fear and adrenaline that you shut off the wrong engine only a handful of seconds prior.
 
Hacker15e said:
Everyone who has struggled with a power-off-180 for their Commercial checkride knows that spot-landing while engine-out is a challenge.

Now try it while you are so keyed up with fear and adrenaline that you shut off the wrong engine only a handful of seconds prior.
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In my CTP sim in the Delta 757 sim, they gave me a dual engine failure about 15k feet above SLC. I roughly hit my old Viper high and low key numbers stupidly (the sim IP was an old AF viper dude). Got to the threshold with gear out at about 220 knots. Did the only real life use of a chandelle you could ever find, and returned to the other outboard, opposite direction, now with energy under control. Touched down in the TDZ. It was mostly luck, and I probably have more experience doing this than most anyone I fly with. The LD ratio between a 757 and an F-16 is wildly different though :)

Which is to say, these guys had no idea what they were doing, and the adrenalin didn't help either like you say. I doubt there are many airline crews airborne right now that could put a full engine failure down in the first half of the runway......probably not even on the runway. That isn't dick measuring, it just isn't something that is ever trained to, save in a Cessna or Piper, 20 years ago.
 
///AMG said:
In my CTP sim in the Delta 757 sim, they gave me a dual engine failure about 15k feet above SLC. I roughly hit my old Viper high and low key numbers stupidly (the sim IP was an old AF viper dude). Got to the threshold with gear out at about 220 knots. Did the only real life use of a chandelle you could ever find, and returned to the other outboard, opposite direction, now with energy under control. Touched down in the TDZ. It was mostly luck, and I probably have more experience doing this than most anyone I fly with. The LD ratio between a 757 and an F-16 is wildly different though :)

Which is to say, these guys had no idea what they were doing, and the adrenalin didn't help either like you say. I doubt there are many airline crews airborne right now that could put a full engine failure down in the first half of the runway......probably not even on the runway. That isn't dick measuring, it just isn't something that is ever trained to, save in a Cessna or Piper, 20 years ago.
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All the more reason I practice 80% simulated emergency landings and 20% normal traffic pattern landings. I use flaps in a 172 only rarely, my usual is "we lost the engine and flaps on base, now what?" then a skid to a slip or vice versa to the runway (if winds require it vs a big smooth bank). I also practice go arounds with the flaps left down every so often then fly the pattern with full flaps if traffic allows, or go from flaps 30 to 0 rapidly at a safe altitude and keep that VSI positive. Gotta pay attention to do that and listen to your buttocks, which requires staying calm and chill. Done lots of teardrop returns at SJC too, and a lot of my flight sim flights end with "I'm bored, engines off, apu on, is there an airport somewhere? Highway? OK we're a vessel, ahoy below".

With that, I'm really hoping if I ever lose a motor you guys aren't here talking about how I panicked and got myself killed but hey, that's the thing about flying, I still could lock up and do that. Who knows.

We don't know until it happens to us, all we can do is hedge our bet with knowledge and preparation. One thing is for sure though, there is no such thing as practicing abnormal ops and challenging situations too often. If done safely. Gotta never lose the pilot thing in the magenta sea.
 
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///AMG said:
In my CTP sim in the Delta 757 sim, they gave me a dual engine failure about 15k feet above SLC. I roughly hit my old Viper high and low key numbers stupidly (the sim IP was an old AF viper dude). Got to the threshold with gear out at about 220 knots. Did the only real life use of a chandelle you could ever find, and returned to the other outboard, opposite direction, now with energy under control. Touched down in the TDZ. It was mostly luck, and I probably have more experience doing this than most anyone I fly with. The LD ratio between a 757 and an F-16 is wildly different though :)

Which is to say, these guys had no idea what they were doing, and the adrenalin didn't help either like you say. I doubt there are many airline crews airborne right now that could put a full engine failure down in the first half of the runway......probably not even on the runway. That isn't dick measuring, it just isn't something that is ever trained to, save in a Cessna or Piper, 20 years ago.
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I’d like to think I’d die trying really hard to pull it off. However everything would be happening quite differently than an approach with all the systems operating as normal.

Would the flaps come out? The gear would have to be lowered with the little hatches in the floor?

If you got the APU online that could help. I’d imagine the sight picture would be a lot different and you’d need to be higher than normal at 3 mile final or so configured. Since you’d normally be at around 55% N1 on a stable approach.

I guess the reason we don’t practice this is the reason we are so specific about which engine we shut down in the sim. “Confirm engine number 1” etc…
 
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