Is the jumpseat truly yours as a (regional) captain?

I've been bumped before by people with higher priority, and so has she. We both understand and respect the system. When the United guy said to me, it's your jumpseat, it really didn't jive with how I understood the system. Sort of like he was implying I was letting something happen that I had control over. And I don't have control over the jumpseat. I have to follow the rules like everyone else.
 
wayway8 said:
I've been bumped before by people with higher priority, and so has she. We both understand and respect the system. When the United guy said to me, it's your jumpseat, it really didn't jive with how I understood the system. Sort of like he was implying I was letting something happen that I had control over. And I don't have control over the jumpseat. I have to follow the rules like everyone else.
Click to expand...

If it is within the scope of your FOM and the FARs. For example, if someone is not in the proper "uniform" you may deny them access to the cockpit. If their required documents don't match up, same thing. But you still must follow the FOM or risk pointed questions from your management or your union junpseat coordinator. In some cases perhaps even the FAA.
There has been at least one enforcement case where a captain denied an FAA safety inspector the jumpseat.
 
Blackhawk said:
If it is within the scope of your FOM and the FARs. For example, if someone is not in the proper "uniform" you may deny them access to the cockpit. If their required documents don't match up, same thing. But you still must follow the FOM or risk pointed questions from your management or your union junpseat coordinator. In some cases perhaps even the FAA.
There has been at least one enforcement case where a captain denied an FAA safety inspector the jumpseat.
Click to expand...

Sounds like we both agree how this works.
 
Blackhawk said:
If it is within the scope of your FOM and the FARs. For example, if someone is not in the proper "uniform" you may deny them access to the cockpit. If their required documents don't match up, same thing. But you still must follow the FOM or risk pointed questions from your management or your union junpseat coordinator. In some cases perhaps even the FAA.
There has been at least one enforcement case where a captain denied an FAA safety inspector the jumpseat.
Click to expand...
Yup, the inspector in question had facial hair prohibited by FOM, if memory serves. This one went all the way to the NTSB.
 
wayway8 said:
I've run into this situation twice now. My fiancee takes the redeye to meet me in LAX to follow me on an overnight. The gate agent says the plane is full and my pilot fiancee is second in line behind someone else.

First time, it was an off-line jumpseater. She had to run to another carrier and ended up in that jumpseat all the way to YVR. I felt horrible asking her to do that. While we were waiting to find out if she would make the flight a United FO said to me, its your jumpseat and you can have whoever you want in it.

Second time, an AA jumpseater was listed ahead for an American Eagle flight I was working. He obviously had priority based on the FOM. I waited at the gate and was going to explain the situation and ask/tell him I wanted my fiancé in the jumpseat instead of him. Turns out there were seats and it wasn't a problem.

I work for Compass and as such the planes aren't ours. So I don't feel like the jumpseat is our either. I feel like we are a temp agency for DL and AA. We are there just to fill the seats as hired labor.

Anybody have an opinion to share about this situation?
Click to expand...

There are two things to consider. First, the jump seat belongs to the certificate holder; i.e. the company. The company defines in its operations manual who may occupy the jump seat, and when. However, there are also the regulations which state that the Captain has the authority to exclude anyone from the jump seat as deemed necessary. In practical application, this means that the Captain cannot say who rides the jump seat. The captain can say who DOESN'T ride the jump seat.

With regard to your point about the planes not being yours; there is some validity there. I worked for a cargo company, and both the company and customer shared the position that the customer was paying for all of the weight carrying capability of the airplane, and therefore had authority to say who rode. Jump seat riders could go only if the weight wasn't needed for payload.
 
Seems like the gate agent decides who has priority and gets the jumpseat and the Captain gives the final say (checks the documents, preflights the JS, etc.) Anything else and you are starting to wander into 'making up my own rules' territory which can be a lonely and scary place if the company or FAA comes knocking.
 
You, as a pilot, are required to follow the guidelines in your Operations Manual (or whatever governing document governs flight operations crew members).

At my company, we have a Jumpseat priority breakout chart. It has been used by myself and a captain to determine who has priority.

There are no happy winners when you have to tell someone that it's not gonna be them. However, there is a slight hint of enjoyment when a certain type of pilot perceives it is his due to an entitlement complex and has to deal with reality when it actually isn't his.

Carry-On.

TL;DR: No, it isn't the gate agent's seat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Getting bumped off the jumpseat was a regular occurrence in ORD. I always had at least 6 backup plans for this reason. I made many calls to our jumpseat coordinator for these "hypotheticals". Like one of the guys said, I had names and descriptions of guys who denied the jumpseat because they "felt" like it.

Derek
 
When doing the MHT-EWR commute, I always picked the company metal flights, lots of senior CAL guys lived in MHT. It was not uncommon to bump one of them out of the seat. One of the CA's got pissed and let me have it (re: not listing on the CAL site and showing up- listing would cost me $20 and place me in a priority line that wouldn't get me on the plane- not something I was going to do on company metal).

Explained the situation, and he ended up making his flight. 3 days later I'm at the gate for the MHT flight, he comes up and sees me again. This time he's livid. Really lets me have it. Was awesome seeing his face when the gate agent handed me the release, and asked when I was ready to board ( I was operating the flight).

He never gave me crap about it again (and he did make the flight home that night too).

It's a small world, as everybody else has said - Commuters remember faces and names. It's bad form to jump priority and potentially risk a pilots job(missed commute etc) because you want to bring a guest, stick to the FOM, or have her jump over to compass, then she'll have company metal priority.
 
I'm not sure what being at a regional has to do with this. As a mainline Captain, you are still required to follow FOM guidance on jumpseat priority or be ready to answer for why you didn't. Of course it's the Captain's final decision to take or remove someone for a safety issue or their non-compliance with your company jumpseat policy. However, they are still obligated to follow the boarding priority list in their FOM (or whatever manual your company uses for that type of thing.)
 
@Dan208B

This is before the merger, from our internal board an actual J/S story from your former side:

" I've been jumpseating on Alaska several times a month now for the past 7 years. Today PDX-LAX on a 737-900 it was full in the back and the Capt. decided that he would NOT take 2 jumpseaters in the cockpit (guess who was second!). Fortunately at the last minute I jumped on Jetblue and spent a very pleasant 2hrs in their cockpit down to LGB. Alaska crews have been nothing but gracious hosts for the past 7 years, so this may be an aberration, and clearly 4 people in a 737 cockpit is cramped - but I thought I'd let everyone stay informed... "


My guesses:
Ex-military?
Alaska his first airline?
Does not commute?
All of the above?

Did you see this at your time there? I'd be ticked inside if I knew a CA refused to take a jumpseater simply because it would be too cramped. Leave no one behind! Besides, PDX-LAX is like a 2 hr-ish flight so people should man up and take the cramp-ness for 2 hrs.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
@Dan208B

This is before the merger, from our internal board an actual J/S story from your former side:

" I've been jumpseating on Alaska several times a month now for the past 7 years. Today PDX-LAX on a 737-900 it was full in the back and the Capt. decided that he would NOT take 2 jumpseaters in the cockpit (guess who was second!). Fortunately at the last minute I jumped on Jetblue and spent a very pleasant 2hrs in their cockpit down to LGB. Alaska crews have been nothing but gracious hosts for the past 7 years, so this may be an aberration, and clearly 4 people in a 737 cockpit is cramped - but I thought I'd let everyone stay informed... "


My guesses:
Ex-military?
Alaska his first airline?
Does not commute?
All of the above?

Did you see this at your time there? I'd be ticked inside if I knew a CA refused to take a jumpseater simply because it would be too cramped. Leave no one behind! Besides, PDX-LAX is like a 2 hr-ish flight so people should man up and take the cramp-ness for 2 hrs.
Click to expand...

Yes, unfortunately I'm very familiar with this. I was a jumpseat guy at a former airline and have been a commuter most of my career so this drives me up the wall. There are a couple guys at Alaska that have done this. One is just long flights (transcons and hawaii) and the other must be the one you spoke of. Neither are commuters, not sure of their background. But it doesn't matter, it's unacceptable. Hopefully their FOs make their position known when it comes up as well. ALPA has spoken with both repeatedly so I'm not entirely sure what stage it's at and what has/will be done. I would say that overall I had VERY positive experiences with jumpseats and with captains regarding that. I'm sorry that happened to one of your guys, it happened to me as well trying to get back from Hawaii once. Not much you can do at that point other than report it. But doing so is the best course of action because your jumpseat folks can contact Alaska's and the more info they have on these guys the better.
 
Dan208B said:
Yes, unfortunately I'm very familiar with this. I was a jumpseat guy at a former airline and have been a commuter most of my career so this drives me up the wall. There are a couple guys at Alaska that have done this. One is just long flights (transcons and hawaii) and the other must be the one you spoke of. Neither are commuters, not sure of their background. But it doesn't matter, it's unacceptable. Hopefully their FOs make their position known when it comes up as well. ALPA has spoken with both repeatedly so I'm not entirely sure what stage it's at and what has/will be done. I would say that overall I had VERY positive experiences with jumpseats and with captains regarding that. I'm sorry that happened to one of your guys, it happened to me as well trying to get back from Hawaii once. Not much you can do at that point other than report it. But doing so is the best course of action because your jumpseat folks can contact Alaska's and the more info they have on these guys the better.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree, good points. Curious, do all AS planes have 2 JS? Which have 1 versus 2? (How do you tell them apart)?
 
The AS captains who don't fill both jumpseats are the exception to the rule. I've been jumping on AS for a number of years now and have seen them put two in the cockpit for their longest flight (ANC/ORD) on multiple occasions.

I've also seen them accept jumpers with some facial hair (a jumper who had been stranded on Denali for several days due to Wx, who had finally gotten off the mountain and come straight to the airport to go back East, as he'd already missed part of a trip). And I've seen them argue at length with Load Control to get jumpers on. The prevailing culture seems to be one of going the extra mile to accommodate jumpers.

Even with two people in the jumpseats the captains and FOs tend to be very gracious. I'm sure it's a PITA for them, but they tend not to let it show. As for the few who don't fill both seats, they must realize that "what goes around comes around," and that they are earning their way towards a proverbial kick in the balls.
 
learhawkerbe400 said:
If I got bumped off the jumpseat so someone's wife could get on I would be absolutely irate and make sure I notified my jumpseat coordinator.
Click to expand...

But you can't complain if they get on the plane in the proper priority order. The last time I checked here at AA is based on priority list order, and the first person who can hold the jumpseat gets the jumpseat. Obviously, the captain can elect to refuse a jumseater (I have seen only seen it refused when it was an IOE guy and the captain didn't want distractions and a PSA guy).
 
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