In-house Delta Job Fair, October 20/21 2017

[learflyer]

What they are saying/doing is wrong and no candidate should do that and basically shoot themselves in the foot for a job. But to play devils advocate....

To use that horse analogy, in this case it was 5,000 thirsty horses and the water you led them to was only enough for 600 horses, and they drank it all in less than 2 minutes. You're gonna have 4,400 horses who had no water. And seemingly, quite a few horses got their tongue into what they thought was water, but it was actually a mirage. (Signed in on time, as soon as it was open picked open slot, then got error message). Most are smart enough to keep it to themselves, but a few are gonna horse around.

I was told there would be no math when I signed up at JC.

 

[SFCC/UND]

Question. I have two internal recommendations on airline apps. Read someone post that recommendations through deltanet is better. Correct? I went to the job fair last year. Trying to go this year.

 

[bike21]

Question. I have two internal recommendations on airline apps. Read someone post that recommendations through deltanet is better. Correct? I went to the job fair last year. Trying to go this year.

The internal rec (separate from Airline Apps) does get your app pulled and scored. No guarantee that turns into an invite of course but it might indeed help.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

First, I've been hearing that for a few years, and yet most of the captains I fly with—often great guys to fly with—have their apps in as well. I'm 2800 on a 5000+ pilot seniority list, and everyone with time had apps in.

Second, I'm not sure I can afford to do this for five more years; the pay is leading to an unsalvageable living situation.

I live in the Midwest now for a reason. Actually, more than one, but the big one is economic. When the pay is the same everywhere, and it is likely to remain that way, then the only real control I have is my own location.

The cost of living within 200 miles of the Bay simply didn't outweigh the benefits. The benefits were pretty much marginal at best, as it wasn't really home anyway.

The (realistic) options then became:

1. Get new job (which I have been attempting to do anyway), which would probably entail leaving the airline industry or at least the flight operations side in its entirety.
2. Relocate under current job. Possibly receive large raise in the process, achieve zero-cost upgrade to living standard as well.

Indeed, the Bay Area is going to find that it has nobody who wants to (or is able to) fly airplanes and drive BART and live anywhere close to where they work - much less anything that pays sub-$41 $44 (I had to look up the E75 pay rate)/hour.

For what I paid for renting a bedroom in a dump in Mountain View, I now live in a 1 bedroom apartment 8 minutes from work, by myself, new construction, amenities, etc. etc. etc. (I actually pay more in state taxes both in dollar amounts and as a percentage, but the roads are, to borrow the term, RCC 5 and clear shortly after it snows. Oh, Minnesota: land of as many taxes as lakes, but at least I feel like I'm getting a direct visible benefit about seven months of the year.)

Option 2 was the most logical choice.

A quick, trivial glance at the list reveals that you can hold CRJ Captain. That's where the pilot-money is around here, both in terms of your hourly rate and in terms of profit sharing and all the other things that change based upon that. There simply isn't much money to be made in the right seat. Which, in short, is abhorrent, and something that I've never really liked about the regional business, either, but that's the way that it is. Unless and until you can convince the Company to give you a cost-of-living/locality override. (I don't think that's going to be much of a winning battle, tbqh.)

When @trafficinsight and I were coworkers for the first time, what seems like a million years (but was really just 4 long-term events, sigh) ago, the situation was much more manageable but still expensive, and Snapshot pay didn't render you comfortable but you could eke out a modest living; nowadays, short of having someone else helping to pay the bills, I don't think I'd consider permanently staying up that way.

The most junior San Francisco Captain has a DOH of 12/2013; upgrading without relocating or commuting may take you a little longer, but that's the West Coast. I know you can hold DTW. I think you can hold MSP and ORD as well.

Third, I don't have a degree and have no intention of playing the game, checking the box, etc. So I'm not going anywhere. Probably a good thing, as my lack of degree makes me a clearly inferior aviator, as per @Autothrust Blue.

I do prefer working with the degreed on average. That's what I said, not that you are an inferior aviator.

I don't recommend inferior aviators to work for my airline.

 

[Nark]

@Autothrust Blue What makes you prefer to work with degrees pilots?

Notice how I said, pilots, not aviator?

 

[trafficinsight]

When @trafficinsight and I were coworkers for the first time, what seems like a million years (but was really just 4 long-term events, sigh) ago, the situation was much more manageable but still expensive, and Snapshot pay didn't render you comfortable but you could eke out a modest living; nowadays, short of having someone else helping to pay the bills, I don't think I'd consider permanently staying up that way.

The most junior San Francisco Captain has a DOH of 12/2013; upgrading without relocating or commuting may take you a little longer, but that's the West Coast. I know you can hold DTW. I think you can hold MSP and ORD as well.

My decision to try to remain in the bay area is a continuously complicated one.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

My decision to try to remain in the bay area is a continuously complicated one.

Indeed. I have a largely complication-free life, so it's not exactly apples to apples, but location is the one thing that we can really control.

 

[derg]

How this job fair thread became a discussion on the efficacy of having a degree or not is odd.

But as a side note on the side discussion, I was watching "Hidden Figures" last night thinking about a lecture that Fred Cone gave my class back in college. He was one of the finalists for astronaut and, well, one person didn't get picked. Him. And he was the only candidate without a Masters.

Was he as good as the other astronauts, probably.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

How this job fair thread became a discussion on the efficacy of having a degree or not is odd.

"If you don't have a degree, don't bother" is not necessarily what the huddled masses want to hear - although the efficiency of it is really quite nice.

I remember Alaska not wanting to talk to me AT ALL at NGPA a few years ago because no TPIC. While I didn't really appreciate it then, in hindsight, saving everyone's time is a matter of courtesy.

 

[derg]

In reference to the career fair, if you don't have the degree, it means you didn't follow the instructions about registration, which is kiiiiiiiind of part of any organizations (airlines, Subway Eat Fresh or Dow-Corning) litmus test.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

"If you don't have a degree, don't bother" is not necessarily what the huddled masses want to hear - although the efficiency of it is really quite nice.

I remember Alaska not wanting to talk to me AT ALL at NGPA a few years ago because no TPIC. While I didn't really appreciate it then, in hindsight, saving everyone's time is a matter of courtesy.

Oh well they're really not gonna want to talk to me, though I don't think they have a choice

"What if" Flica shows I can hold SFO 320 CA. Decisions, decisions.

 

[🦈💜]

No, no, nobody is talking about degrees and job requirements, @Nark, @Derg, etc. That conversation has been had multiple times and is not being reopened here. I commented that I don't have a degree and thus won't be going to a major as context as to why I was an objective third party. That was it. Move along, please. Or if you want to reopen the discussion, do it substantively.

I accepted my regional lifer status when I opted to come to a regional without a degree.

-Fox

 

[🦈💜]

... though I'm tempted to go back to Alaska, or try to struggle my way in to the firefighting industry. Cape Air seems nice, but really doesn't pay enough. :<

I dunno.

-Fox

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

No, no, nobody is talking about degrees and job requirements, @Nark, @Derg, etc. That conversation has been had multiple times and is not being reopened here. I commented that I don't have a degree and thus won't be going to a major as context as to why I was an objective third party. That was it. Move along, please. Or if you want to reopen the discussion, do it substantively.

I accepted my regional lifer status when I opted to come to a regional without a degree.

-Fox

Unless the major requires a degree apply away and keep updating. Worse case, you keep your current position which it sounds like you already expect. But best case: you get a call. If not DL/AA/UA/AS, I still think you'd have a very good shot at Frontier, Spirit, jetBlue, and/or Allegiant in the near future. Personally I think I would apply anywhere that didn't have a published requirement for a degree.

 

[ian]

I live in the Midwest now for a reason. Actually, more than one, but the big one is economic. When the pay is the same everywhere, and it is likely to remain that way, then the only real control I have is my own location.

The cost of living within 200 miles of the Bay simply didn't outweigh the benefits. The benefits were pretty much marginal at best, as it wasn't really home anyway.

The (realistic) options then became:

1. Get new job (which I have been attempting to do anyway), which would probably entail leaving the airline industry or at least the flight operations side in its entirety.
2. Relocate under current job. Possibly receive large raise in the process, achieve zero-cost upgrade to living standard as well.

Indeed, the Bay Area is going to find that it has nobody who wants to (or is able to) fly airplanes and drive BART and live anywhere close to where they work - much less anything that pays sub-$41 $44 (I had to look up the E75 pay rate)/hour.

For what I paid for renting a bedroom in a dump in Mountain View, I now live in a 1 bedroom apartment 8 minutes from work, by myself, new construction, amenities, etc. etc. etc. (I actually pay more in state taxes both in dollar amounts and as a percentage, but the roads are, to borrow the term, RCC 5 and clear shortly after it snows. Oh, Minnesota: land of as many taxes as lakes, but at least I feel like I'm getting a direct visible benefit about seven months of the year.)

Option 2 was the most logical choice.

A quick, trivial glance at the list reveals that you can hold CRJ Captain. That's where the pilot-money is around here, both in terms of your hourly rate and in terms of profit sharing and all the other things that change based upon that. There simply isn't much money to be made in the right seat. Which, in short, is abhorrent, and something that I've never really liked about the regional business, either, but that's the way that it is. Unless and until you can convince the Company to give you a cost-of-living/locality override. (I don't think that's going to be much of a winning battle, tbqh.)

When @trafficinsight and I were coworkers for the first time, what seems like a million years (but was really just 4 long-term events, sigh) ago, the situation was much more manageable but still expensive, and Snapshot pay didn't render you comfortable but you could eke out a modest living; nowadays, short of having someone else helping to pay the bills, I don't think I'd consider permanently staying up that way.

The most junior San Francisco Captain has a DOH of 12/2013; upgrading without relocating or commuting may take you a little longer, but that's the West Coast. I know you can hold DTW. I think you can hold MSP and ORD as well.


I do prefer working with the degreed on average. That's what I said, not that you are an inferior aviator.

I don't recommend inferior aviators to work for my airline.

when are you moving to Atlanta?

 

[ian]

"If you don't have a degree, don't bother" is not necessarily what the huddled masses want to hear - although the efficiency of it is really quite nice.

I remember Alaska not wanting to talk to me AT ALL at NGPA a few years ago because no TPIC. While I didn't really appreciate it then, in hindsight, saving everyone's time is a matter of courtesy.

when i first separated from the AF i went to @scooter2525's operation at WIA, they turned me away and handed me my resume back because I didnt have 2.5kTT and only had about 2200, but had over 1k TPIC.....

 

[bp]

... though I'm tempted to go back to Alaska, or try to struggle my way in to the firefighting industry. Cape Air seems nice, but really doesn't pay enough. :<

I dunno.

-Fox

Firefighting as in flying tankers? How much time do you have?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[🦈💜]

Firefighting as in flying tankers? How much time do you have

Coming up on a earth-shattering 2500 hours... 1000 AK time. Nothing remotely impressive, by any measure, but the aviation industry has done me no favors and I've fought for every tenth.

I always wanted to fly airtankers, or warbirds, my whole childhood. I lost track of my one contact in the industry back around 1997, and then came a few high-profile tanker crashes and the blue ribbon panel, and the industry appeared impossible to enter. I wanted to fly ag, but I didn't want to fly ag at the same time due to chemicals, and the "farmer first, pilot second" mindset.

Anyway, sorry for the sidebar.

-Fox

 

[Richman]

I live in the Midwest now for a reason. Actually, more than one, but the big one is economic. When the pay is the same everywhere, and it is likely to remain that way, then the only real control I have is my own location..

I got myself shipped out to the rural mid-west for my first airline gig. It had unexpected benefits.

1) No state income tax, though to be fair my starting pay was so low it didn't matter.
2) Learned to talk to Flight Service over the VOR, practiced "cruise clearances" and learned what "enroute with radio" meant in your ATC clearance.
3) People there loved people who were solvent and employed.
4) Cost of living was ridiculously inexpensive, sometimes in comic ways. One month I got an electric bill from the local Co-Op for $4.
5) The breakfast skillet at Embers rocked....albeit I only had one during my once a month pilgrimages to Sioux Falls to enjoy "the city".

 

[Bear]

Is it known that this expected hiring is driven by an expected number of retirements? What about retirements at the other majors determining recruitment / hiring ? Or is this driven also by expected growth?