I want an airplane -help me spend my money

[genot]

I'm not a pilot and so this may be totally off the wall, but what about:

They seem cheap enough, don't have the retractable gear expenses, they're certainly big enough for your needs, but at over 20 gph it may not be something you'd like to fuel too often.

Probably not enough market for center line thrust instruction/rentals per the OP's idea, but darned if I don't love those ugly things. All the speed of a single engine with the payload and costs of a twin. I'll take mine with the Riley Super Skyrocket mods thanks. That and a winning lottery ticket.

 

[Nukem]

The twin tail always reminds me of a P-38.

 

[Springer]

I pulled the trigger on this:

 

[Nukem]

I PASSED! So lets get serious. I want to go fly!

@ctab5060X What kind of cost of ownership and operation have you experienced with your Citabria?

 

[killbilly]

I PASSED! So lets get serious. I want to go fly!

@ctab5060X What kind of cost of ownership and operation have you experienced with your Citabria?

@hook_dupin <--- also has a Citabria

 

[Low&Slow]

I PASSED! So lets get serious. I want to go fly!

@ctab5060X What kind of cost of ownership and operation have you experienced with your Citabria?

You're not going to "carry four adults plus minimal baggage" in a Citabria or a Decathlon. You'll be approaching (possibly exceeding) max gross with just two adults and full fuel.
Did your mission change?
I've been thinking of getting a Decathlon and flying aerobatics while I build a 4-place Bearhawk.

 

[Nukem]

Did your mission change?
I've been thinking of getting a Decathlon and flying aerobatics while I build a 4-place Bearhawk.

No major mission change. Although I admit I did lose focus while distracted with work/class. I do still have the option to own small and rent bigger when needed.

 

[ctab5060X]

I PASSED! So lets get serious. I want to go fly!

@ctab5060X What kind of cost of ownership and operation have you experienced with your Citabria?

@Nukem

I've never really sat down and figured a per hour operating cost for my Citabria.

That being said, the biggest single expense has always been hangar space. Cheapest location I used was about $1000 a year. Other locations wanted as much as $3000+ per year in hangar rent.

Annual inspection has averaged out about $700 over the years.

Insurance is about $1200 a year. I could get it lower, but I would just about restrict anyone else from flying the airplane but me.

 

[gliderboy]

172 with hi-comp pistons and tuned exhaust. My friend just did this and the power increase was so great that he had to get the prop re-pitched to make maximum use of it all. Fuel consumption stayed about the same. (Raising the compression on a low-compression engine generally improves fuel economy because it gets more energy from the fuel.)
The power of a six with the low maintenance and lower operating cost of a four.

 

[Richman]

Cessna 182 or Piper Dakota/Cherokee 235 if you like low wings.

Bulletproof engines. Relatively cheap insurance. Wide CG range and 1200+ useful. Anyone who's ever turned a wrench can work on them.

If all you want to do is bebop around and take the occasional longer trip, anything else is overkill.

What's more, both of the above have better than average value retention when it comes to resale.

Get a good pre-purchase whatever you do. A bird in GOOD mechanical condition is >>>> than anything else.

Mooneys, Bonanzas, Commanches, and the like need the occasional specialized maintenance to make sure nothing is missed considering the age of the fleet.

Richman

 

[chrisreedrules]

I think the only way I would ever own an airplane anymore is if I had enough property for my own 2500ft dirt strip. I ain't payin no stinkin airport fees or hangar rental.

 

[Nukem]

^^^^This ^^^^

There are fewer GA operations now but hangar space is either unavailable or EXPENSIVE. How can it be?

 

[killbilly]

^^^^This ^^^^

There are fewer GA operations now but hangar space is either unavailable or EXPENSIVE. How can it be?

Simple. Hardly anyone is building new hangars. The demand outstrips the supply right now. There have always been more airplanes than hangars to put them in. Also - they aren't exactly building a lot of new airports.

Couple that with the fact that more and more people of means are moving into central urban areas and away from the 'burbs (where the airports are) and flying becomes less convenient. Airports with fewer operations are probably trying to make up the shortfalls with increased hangar fees. And since they aren't building more of them, they're getting the money.

This last part is just a theory, though. @Murdoughnut knows way more about this stuff than I do and could probably shed some light.

 

[chrisreedrules]

At my local municipal airport, there is a waiting list a few years long to buy your own hangar space. And rent for hangar space is astronomical. Several thousand a year to tens of thousands a year. I had an opportunity to buy some T-hangar space for 10K a couple years back and I almost wish I did from an investment standpoint. I probably could of found an impatient aircraft owner who would have doubled what I paid for it.

Anyway, I'd like about 15 - 20 acres with a 2500 - 3000 ft dirt strip. I'd probably just own something like a cub or a citabria. If I was using the aircraft for family travel more, I'd look at a 182 or a 210. Or even a C-337. I have a couple dozen hours in 337s and have a soft spot for them.

Although admittedly, owning an airplane seems less and less appealing the longer I've been flying. As it is, I really only get the itch to fly for fun a few times a year anymore and in that case it is much more economical to just rent. Plus I'd rather own a boat.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Simple. Hardly anyone is building new hangars. The demand outstrips the supply right now. There have always been more airplanes than hangars to put them in. Also - they aren't exactly building a lot of new airports.

Couple that with the fact that more and more people of means are moving into central urban areas and away from the 'burbs (where the airports are) and flying becomes less convenient. Airports with fewer operations are probably trying to make up the shortfalls with increased hangar fees. And since they aren't building more of them, they're getting the money.

This last part is just a theory, though. @Murdoughnut knows way more about this stuff than I do and could probably shed some light.

I'd say you're exactly right, at least base don what we see here. The two GA airports in Tampa Bay that are successful (i.e. break even) are Albert Whitted (SPG) and Peter O'Knight (TPF). Both are located near the urban core, and in high dollar neighborhoods. Put simply, they're close to where the money is.

The middle class weekend flyer is a dying breed - quite literally, these guys are losing their medicals and passing in droves, and there aren't many behind them to follow.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I'd say you're exactly right, at least base don what we see here. The two GA airports in Tampa Bay that are successful (i.e. break even) are Albert Whitted (SPG) and Peter O'Knight (TPF). Both are located near the urban core, and in high dollar neighborhoods. Put simply, they're close to where the money is.

The middle class weekend flyer is a dying breed - quite literally, these guys are losing their medicals and passing in droves, and there aren't many behind them to follow.

This is the only pilot shortage. The 100 hamburger pilot shortage.

 

[killbilly]

I'd say you're exactly right, at least base don what we see here. The two GA airports in Tampa Bay that are successful (i.e. break even) are Albert Whitted (SPG) and Peter O'Knight (TPF). Both are located near the urban core, and in high dollar neighborhoods. Put simply, they're close to where the money is.

The middle class weekend flyer is a dying breed - quite literally, these guys are losing their medicals and passing in droves, and there aren't many behind them to follow.

Seems to be keeping the prices up on planes, though. I wish I had had the means to buy a plane in 2008...piston singles were dirt-freakin' cheap back when 100LL was $7.00 a gallon.

 

[milleR]

Location is everything. I've heard Signature at BWI is charging $1000/month for T-hangars, the wait at MTN is years (+/- $300/month but it's been years since I checked) and DMW has a couple open hangars today running from $250-400/month depending on size (with power and lights).

 

[Murdoughnut]

Seems to be keeping the prices up on planes, though. I wish I had had the means to buy a plane in 2008...piston singles were dirt-freakin' cheap back when 100LL was $7.00 a gallon.

That's the one thing that confuses the hell out of me. I predicted that used GA piston aircraft prices would plummet by now, which they haven't. There are others on here who can speak more to it than I can, but some potential theories:

• Overseas buyers offsetting lack of domestic demand
• Owners sitting on aircraft rather than taking a hit on them, even if it just means turning the motor occasionally
• Some inventory aging out (think of the decaying Bonanza's you see at many rural GA fields that have essentially lost all value)

 

[killbilly]

Location is everything. I've heard Signature at BWI is charging $1000/month for T-hangars, the wait at MTN is years (+/- $300/month but it's been years since I checked) and DMW has a couple open hangars today running from $250-400/month depending on size (with power and lights).

That's not a bad price at DMW. Too bad it's so far from DC.


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