I guess Boeing didn't learn from 787 problems!

Autothrust Blue said:
Oh, good.

Incidentally, when you let the MBAs "administer the business" all you get is relentless bleeding.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Though, my father has a business degree and was in management for a while. The difference is that he earned his degree on the side, while working his way up, starting with sewing sleeping bags in Montana. Then he lost his job at the company he'd worked for for nearly 20 years because they were bought out by some huge corporate monstrosity that focused more on "the business of business" than making the best dang widget they could. So basically the new American Dream.
 
Roger Roger said:
Agreed. Though, my father has a business degree and was in management for a while. The difference is that he earned his degree on the side, while working his way up, starting with sewing sleeping bags in Montana. Then he lost his job at the company he'd worked for for nearly 20 years because they were bought out by some huge corporate monstrosity that focused more on "the business of business" than making the best dang widget they could. So basically the new American Dream.
Click to expand...
I'll admit I suffer from a bias (against business degrees) that most folks with computer science degrees also suffer from. And I'm a big believer in promotion from within, versus "hey this guy has a Harvard degree and he's going to run the airline now."

The large disconnect between the big wood paneled offices on the fourth floor and (say) the ticket counter is one of the problems with American business.


AFIS LINK ACK
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I'll admit I suffer from a bias (against business degrees) that most folks with computer science degrees also suffer from. And I'm a big believer in promotion from within, versus "hey this guy has a Harvard degree and he's going to run the airline now."

The large disconnect between the big wood paneled offices on the fourth floor and (say) the ticket counter is one of the problems with American business.


AFIS LINK ACK
Click to expand...

Mr Anderson went to a pretty crappy law school.

And has done amazing work at his company.

Might say something eh.
 
jtrain609 said:
Mr Anderson went to a pretty crappy law school.

And has done amazing work at his company.

Might say something eh.
Click to expand...
It is downright impressive.

To me, a good leader requires an understanding of the industry and the product, a keenly analytical mind and a vision. I think RA has all of these qualifies.


AFIS LINK ACK
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Moar!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenth...or-777x-airliner-production/?partner=yahootix
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Another update from yesterday's Seattle Times:
http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2022190157_boeingiamxml.html

Boeing, Machinists talks on 777X on final approach
Secret high-level talks between Boeing and the Machinists union have reached a decisive point as the two sides try to clinch a deal to build the 777X in the Puget Sound area in exchange for a long-term labor contract.
Click to expand...

mshunter said:
Huh? Where's this coming from?
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I think @jynxyjoe was talking about this issue, which I hadn't heard about before now:

Sept 4, 2007: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2007/09/temporary_fasteners_causing_ma/

According to sources with direct knowledge at both ends of the major sub-assembly supply chain, temporary parts, including fasteners, are causing significant slow downs in the 787 program.

The source of the slowdown in progress on Dreamliner One originated in the rush to meet the July 8th roll out. The push to achieve this milestone forced supply chain partners to use over-the-counter parts and prevented assembly teams from being able to document the location of these temporary fasteners on the first 787.

Boeing has previously acknowledged that temporary fasteners would be required on early 787 airframes while a shortage of flightworthy fasteners was being remedied. Flightblogger has learned that many of the temporary fasteners, which were painted red and installed in place of flightworthy parts, were purchased from run-of-the-mill chain hardware stores, including Home Depot and Ace Hardware.
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Jan 25, 2009:
http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/787-test-planes-to-retain-temp-fasteners/

787 test planes to retain temp fasteners
All six Boeing 787s slated to be test airplanes in the certification program will retain an undisclosed number of temporary fasteners, we’ve learned.

Temporary fasteners became a cause célèbre, it will be remembered, when Airplane #1 used for the July 8, 2007, roll-out to an international media extravaganza was revealed to have thousands of temporary fasteners as a result of a shortage of the proper fasteners. This required non-standard ones be used to assemble the display airplane.

...

“The small number of fasteners that won’t be replaced are 1: not easy to reach AND (not OR) 2: don’t represent a safety of flight issue. They have the ability to withstand the loads and number of cycles expected during the flight test program. They must be repaired before long-term operations begin so they will be replaced during the refurbishment program after flight test.”

Boeing declined to quantify what percentage of fasteners is involved or where they are in the airplane. In confirming that all six test airplanes are involved, Boeing also said that the number of fasteners declines from Airplane 1 through Airplane 6.
Click to expand...

And the FAA responded on Jan 30, 2009:
http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2009/01/30/faa-responds-to-787-fastener-issue/

What a nightmare! :ooh:
 
It's just a matter of time before Embraer jumps in to this market. Brush up on your Portuguese.
 
Nice job @inigo88 , I admit that at this point in my JC lifespan if people don't accept I know at least a little bit about certification of aircraft I'm not running around trying to prove it. I'm turning into" that guy" I suppose. Good on you for doing the work I'm too lazy and apathetic for.
 
American Business = "Finance"*. That's what we do, now, insofar as we do anything.

* So basically stealing.

Back to work on the raft!
 
jynxyjoe said:
Nice job @inigo88 , I admit that at this point in my JC lifespan if people don't accept I know at least a little bit about certification of aircraft I'm not running around trying to prove it. I'm turning into" that guy" I suppose. Good on you for doing the work I'm too lazy and apathetic for.
Click to expand...

No prob, it was a crazy enough story that I thought more people should see it. I'm not as horrified by the temporary use of hardware store fasteners (so long as they picked a high enough grade) as much as I am by the amount of extra cost they must have incurred by creating the engineering programs (and FAA coordination) now required to keep track of and replace said fasteners. I'd be surprised if it wasn't cheaper to just delay the rollout and initial flight testing. Not a good way to run an already over-budget program, but I guess time pressures must have been severe.
 
inigo88 said:
No prob, it was a crazy enough story that I thought more people should see it. I'm not as horrified by the temporary use of hardware store fasteners (so long as they picked a high enough grade) as much as I am by the amount of extra cost they must have incurred by creating the engineering programs (and FAA coordination) now required to keep track of and replace said fasteners. I'd be surprised if it wasn't cheaper to just delay the rollout and initial flight testing. Not a good way to run an already over-budget program, but I guess time pressures must have been severe.
Click to expand...
Building an airplane is now (and has been since the 90s) a process based on an unrealistic timeline, purposefully unrealistic, and then sticking to it. It is absurd, everyone knows it, but they believe that they have to work a schedule that is -by design-impossible. It borders on doublethink from Orwells 1984. Nothingmakes sense with these clowns anymore. Doesnt matter which manufacturer it is.
 
Every airplane will miss its deadline and target launch date by design! Ok I'm done ranting now... MORONS! OK for realz.
 
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