I don't suck up... what to do

gomntwins said:
Tony, the only reason I brought it up in the first place is because you assumed I've been living the luxurious life on my parents money. I've done everything for myself for years.
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Ah, that's a negative. I don't assume anything about where people get their cashola from unless they say something about it.

And I honestly don't care. There are trust fund babies who are far better people than people who "earned" their money and vice versa. It's all about the person.
 
I have to agree with Seagull. I don't believe that the site or content is going downhill at all. But I do believe that the human element is a problem. I think what we see growing more everyday on here is elements of human nature.

Be it name calling,personal attacks et al. it is condusive of the human element. As much as we might despise that kinda behavior on the site it is naturally occuring in all of us. Some just seem more adept at concealing it or controlling it then others. While others need to be policed in order to make them be the good persons we want or expect them to be.

In society crime be it rape,murder,pedophilia,theft etc. would be far more rampant without the fear of jail or the death sentence. That fear holds alot of people in check while others who don't care risk loss of freedom by commiting deplorable acts. The same again could be said about this site if the admins and mods looked the other way it could quicky become the next flightinfo. The saving grace of any message board is not only it's users but it managment staff.
 
Oh sure, you could mod the place silly, make it look exactly the way you think it should. But then what would you have? An accurate presentation of the individual thoughts and opinions of the members, or a pretty little tea garden? Moderation should never be used to control opinion, and only seldom used to control behavior. That balance takes maturity, integrity, and intelligence. So far, our mods have done a bang up job. There's a few goofballs here, of course, but overall I wouldn't trade twenty flightinfo's for one JC.
 
CapnJim said:
Oh sure, you could mod the place silly, make it look exactly the way you think it should. But then what would you have? An accurate presentation of the individual thoughts and opinions of the members, or a pretty little tea garden? Moderation should never be used to control opinion, and only seldom used to control behavior. That balance takes maturity, integrity, and intelligence. So far, our mods have done a bang up job. There's a few goofballs here, of course, but overall I wouldn't trade twenty flightinfo's for one JC.
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And I would agree with your sentiments. But would ass that people only showing behavior are the ones that should and need to be moded.Which is the case here! Definately not a police state on JC!
 
.. cant we all just get along?

I need to be moded. Don told me so.
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"Moderation should never be used to control opinion"

I could care less about opinion. The personal attacks and insults are far too common, though.

I don't know, Merit. If the shoe fits....
 
DE727, I'm glad you have the ability to discern opinion from insult, without letting personal views color your opinion. That takes a lot of integrity, and intelligence.

But I have to say, I've seen quite a bit of the old "I would have modded you, but..." Screw that. Mod it or don't mod it. I sure as hell won't alter what I say based on whether I think it'll get modded or not, nor should anyone else.

Modding should be the last resort, and utterly accountable and disputable. If it's not, it's just... foolhardy.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
But I do believe that the human element is a problem.
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Exactly. To some the human element they don't like is going to be the representation of the site going downhill. With a public anything you are attracting much different facets of personalities, etc. so someone is bound to disagree and/or see the public whatever as going downhill.
 
This probably isn't going to be an entirely popular idea, but here's what I do as a mod on another site. There are some regulars who pretty much keep the site enjoyable and running, but there are also trolls that when they come around, everone starts having a bad time.

As a moderator, I dont do much moderating. That seems to make anyone happy. The only thing I am really tough on are blatant, personal attacks. What usually starts happening is that the regulars start to pick on the trolls. Eventually, because all the regulars team up on the troll, the troll ceases to have a good time and eventually goes away.

I dont let them get away with murder, but I may be a bit more tolerant with what I let a regular do than anyone else.

Sometimes the forum seems to "be going dowhill" but it usually fixes itself after a few weeks.
 
My question is what is a personal attack and what is the truth. Is calling a spade a spade a personal attack or is it telling it like it is. I think Tony's signature says it best : The truth only hurts if it should.
 
Sprint100 said:
Exactly. To some the human element they don't like is going to be the representation of the site going downhill. With a public anything you are attracting much different facets of personalities, etc. so someone is bound to disagree and/or see the public whatever as going downhill.
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Woah.
Sprint, the only thing wrong with that post is that it didn't go far enough. Hell, man, you just summed up nine-tenths of human behavior!

Bravo!
 
gomntwins said:
. Anybody have any good ideas?
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1) Stop thinking about yourself and keep courtesy and consideration for others foremost in the way you do business, 2) take pride in becoming the best professional pilot you are capable of becoming and 3) should a recipient of your services leave your airplane safe, comfortable and satisfied because of your efforts...I'd vote that you lived up to your responsibility as a professional. Everything else will fall into place. There are brilliant pilots out there who never got rich...and rich pilots out there who probably shouldn't be trusted with the responsibility. Given a choice...I'd take the former...although I'm still striving for the brilliant part.
 
B767Driver said:
1) Stop thinking about yourself and keep courtesy and consideration for others foremost in the way you do business, 2) take pride in becoming the best professional pilot you are capable of becoming and 3) should a recipient of your services leave your airplane safe, comfortable and satisfied because of your efforts...I'd vote that you lived up to your responsibility as a professional. Everything else will fall into place. There are brilliant pilots out there who never got rich...and rich pilots out there who probably shouldn't be trusted with the responsibility. Given a choice...I'd take the former...although I'm still striving for the brilliant part.
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yup, I agree. If someone asks me for a favor like "hey, I'm running late, can you pick up my dry cleaning and have it waiting in the plane?" I'll gladly do it, especially if they're paying me fairly well for it. I get that some bosses can be idiots and ask for too much in exchange for too little, but I think the "being anti-authority" is simply that is stuck in your mind and sounds cool when you say it.
 
B767Driver said:
1) Stop thinking about yourself and keep courtesy and consideration for others foremost in the way you do business, 2) take pride in becoming the best professional pilot you are capable of becoming and 3) should a recipient of your services leave your airplane safe, comfortable and satisfied because of your efforts...I'd vote that you lived up to your responsibility as a professional. Everything else will fall into place. There are brilliant pilots out there who never got rich...and rich pilots out there who probably shouldn't be trusted with the responsibility. Given a choice...I'd take the former...although I'm still striving for the brilliant part.
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WooooooooWEEEE!
Lotsa folks bringing thier A game tonight!
Damn B767, if you had my respect before, you just reaffirmed it with that post.
 
I think I read something about carrying bags and making coffee in this thread for people aboard your aircraft.

I could not tolerate the ridicule. I've talked to several corporate/charter pilots who were asked plain stupid things by their pax. I've heard of pax coming to the deck and telling the CA the coffee was cold or tasted bad. People asking the pilots to carry their little $1000 dog purses, I even heard recently from an ex-charter pilot of a Lear that the pax who chartered the plane was bitching about not being able to fly the plane as he had some flying lessons in the past.

I'd be livid and would feel completely disrespected as a professional.
 
CapnJim said:
But I have to say, I've seen quite a bit of the old "I would have modded you, but..." Screw that. Mod it or don't mod it. I sure as hell won't alter what I say based on whether I think it'll get modded or not, nor should anyone else.

Modding should be the last resort, and utterly accountable and disputable. If it's not, it's just... foolhardy.
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Arrgghh! :yar:
 
meritflyer said:
I could not tolerate the ridicule... I've heard of pax coming to the deck and telling the CA the coffee was cold or tasted bad.
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Maybe for some, it's a fine line between 'sucking up' and providing outstanding customer service. You see, as the Captain of the ship in a 135 operation I am responsible for making the entire trip go well for myself and the passengers, not just physically flying the airplane safely from point A to point B.

That includes making sure there's hot coffee onboard.

Cuz when somebody's paying $3000 per hour to charter a jet to fly across the country, hot coffee (or a certain newspaper, or certain catering, or carrying a bag, or whatever) is not an unreasonable request. It's an integral part of my job to make sure that happens, along with other stuff that isn't directly related to flying the airplane (and no, I don't compromise safety in order to accomplish the non-safety tasks).

Sure, you have picky passengers and passengers who can be major a$$es, etc. Be prepared for it, and deal with it. If they cross the line, you tactfully discuss the issue with them, try to resolve the problem as best you can and stand your ground if necessary. That's what a professional does. And besides, $100 tips can be a nice little perk!

There are other types of flying that might better suit those pilots who don't want to deal with this stuff.
 
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