I don't suck up... what to do

Rather than answer your IM with another IM, I'm going to answer you in public.


You started off telling us that you were an only child, travelling when you felt like it, hopping to Europe on the spur of the moment, living the "happy go lucky" lifestyle until you woke up one day and decided that you needed to start making money.


Now that your attitude has been called into question, you want us to believe you're a self-made man, intimately familiar with sacrifice.


Which is it?


You state in the PM that you were homeless for 3 years. In the previous post, you say it was 2 years. I find it hard to believe that you could be so confused or forgetful about such a detail, if it's the truth.



Your problem is not finding a job to match your attitude, it's fixing your attitude.





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I was happy go lucky for the first two years out of high school. I went to college, and did a few stupid things. I traveled a lot. I had a good relationship with my parents that went downhill quickly because of alcoholism. As to why I don't bring it up... it's not something I'm proud of. I don't like to talk about it. Would you? It's not a bragging point in anybody's life. I spent 2 years in my car in college and one year as a flight instructor sleeping on different friends couches. When I first took this freight job I slept in the back of the airplane.
 
Tony, the only reason I brought it up in the first place is because you assumed I've been living the luxurious life on my parents money. I've done everything for myself for years.
 
if you really dont ever want to deal with people, get on a with a freight company that will eventually allow you to build turbine PIC, stay there long enough and then go to UPS/Fedex.
 
jfleisher said:
if you really dont ever want to deal with people, get on a with a freight company that will eventually allow you to build turbine PIC, stay there long enough and then go to UPS/Fedex.
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I 'll start building turbine PIC in a few weeks. I'm in training for the next three to fly a metroliner. That's kinda what I was thinking of too. I think I'd like the job overall flying Feded/UPS. It's tough getting on with those companies. Extremely tough.
 
Somewhere in this mess of a thread my message got skewed... and I'm to blame as well. I probably should've worded things different. Guess I'm not the best writer in the world. What I really want to know is, how much interaction do most people have with management in different jobs? I worked at two flight schools: 1) where the boss was down my throat daily for only putting in 10-12 hour days 6 days a week and how I needed to work more & 2) where you're off on your own to make things work. I made better money at the second job and liked life a lot better. I've been at both types of jobs throughout my life. I prefer the second type. That's all. What I don't like is to be micro managed. I understand that management exists for a reason... what I don't like is when your boss takes a count of how many times you use the toilet (seen it) throughout the day and coming to you at the end of the week saying you're wasting company time. As for people, I like people overall. What I don't like is dealing with people who are total asses. I can do it as long as it's not on a daily basis for the same person (bad management or a bad owner). I've had too many friends get out of flying because of the person they worked for (usually corporate, although I have seen it as low as at the flight instructor level as well) to not be a little scared/intimidated by getting into a situation like that. My current management situation is as follows: If they have a problem, they give me a call, I fix it. Easy enough. I like it. It exists. Does it exist anywhere else in aviation? Is this it? I don't need calls from 5 different people telling me the same thing about something being wrong (office space anybody?). I really don't know how airline management works. Obviously, it's most likely a large company... if somebody has an issue with somebody else that needs to be addressed, how is it handled? Is there a string of managment that handles it? Is it usually handled by the different parties? If a passenger blames you for something you didn't do what's managements reaction? threaten you without hearing your side? I've worked for those places as well. Or do they back you? That's all I'm trying to figure out here. Not how to become a hermit. As for my corporate example, the few people I know who are still in corporate flying are literally the owner's b*tch. I see them washing the plane owner's car when they're not flying. I see them running errands to pick up the chinese food. I see them being treated more as slaves/servants than I do as pilots. That's my experience with it. Obviously, by some constructive posts here, that's not always the case. Good. That's the info I need.
 
After getting furloughed, I thought a lot about all the BS I had taken from people over the years. I thought I'd had enough of taking crap from people, and I wanted to think of a job where I didn't have to 'deal' with people ever again.

I thought.

And I thought.

But everything I thought of required dealing with people, to some exent! Certainly some jobs more than others, but there's really NO job out there where you won't be held accountable to someone, or have to answer to someone, or interact with people at all. Even flying freight (I'm talking major airline freight, like UPS/FedEx), you'll still have someone sitting next to you in the cockpit. All the time. You'll have a chief pilot to answer to, you'll have rampers to work with, crew scheduling to deal with, load planners & dispatchers to work with, etc. Bottom like, no matter what you do, you NEED some people skills to be able to communicate with and get along with others. Unless you have your own business, you'll have a boss. Even if you own your own business, you still have to answer to your customers, or you won't have a business for long!

I won't tell you that you'll have to be a doormat, certainly not. But, some tact, diplomacy, communication skills, and maturity go a long way towards getting along with people. You don't have to be best friends with everyone, you don't even have to have any friends if you don't want. But you'll have a much better existance and go much farther in life if you can at least learn to get along with people.



Edit to add: Your above post helps explain a lot, I'll do some answering to that after I get the kids to bed.
 
jfleisher said:
Yeah, what was wrong with my statement? I was suggesting that since they fly cargo and thats what he seems to like doing.
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Perhaps you suffer from a misconception that they don't deal with people. Read Amber's post for a hint at the truth.


:)




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ahhhh!!!! I like people!!!! I deal with the same rampers, we get along great! All I want, more than anything, is to work for a place where I get the respect I deserve as a professional and to respect the people I work for. mutual respect. Does it exist?
 
gomntwins said:
ahhhh!!!! I like people!!!! I deal with the same rampers, we get along great! All I want, more than anything, is to work for a place where I get the respect I deserve as a professional and to respect the people I work for. mutual respect. Does it exist?
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Nope...kidding..well maybe the "purple" god can answer it better!

:)
 
TonyC said:
Perhaps you suffer from a misconception that they don't deal with people. Read Amber's post for a hint at the truth.


:)




.
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No I was just misunderstood. Im smart enough to know they dont fly as self employed pilots in single pilot jumbo jets. I was merely suggesting the idea since they dont fly people.

:)
 
I think I get what you're asking.

In the flight instructor world, it really depends entirely on the flight school you work for. The school my dad used to work at, which was the school I did my PPL at, had a chief pilot who was very laid back. He was an ex-Army helo guy who was a total salesman bs-er who could talk to anybody, he was a good guy to work for who was not down anybody's neck about every little thing. Some other FBO operators are not so relaxed! Finding a good FBO/flight school to work for is a matter of looking around, word of mouth (that's networking!), and just spending some time at the school and talking to the current employees to see what they think.

I can't speak of the coporate world, I have no corporate experience and have no clue about how managment 'is' in the corporate world. Hopefully one of the corp guys will speak up about their world.

At the airlines, there's so many layers of managment, you'll need a flip card index to keep track of who is who's boss. As a line pilot, you'll answer to the local base chief pilot. Depending on the number of pilots at the base, there's a good chance your chief pilot may never learn your name. If there is an incident that requires managements attention, you'll usually get a "nastygram" (an email) telling you to go see the chief pilot about the event. In my 7 years with the airlines, and my husband's 12 years with the airlines, it has been our experience that for the most part the chief pilots will listen to your side of the story of what happened. Chief pilots aren't there to micromanage you, and you usually don't see much of them.

Most airlines have a 'professional standards' commitee that is a part of the pilots' union, to which any issues that other employees have with you are (hopefully) taken. The pilot is talked to by a union member, not management, to see what the issue is, and to get the whole story and to hopefully resolve the issue without getting managment involved.

I hope that answers your questions! Please let me know if it doesn't, or if I can explain anything else!
 
jfleisher said:
... since they dont fly people.

:)
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The fact that they don't fly with people (passengers) does not mean that they don't deal with people.


Sometimes they deal with people who are sleep-deprived and fatigued, and under a myriad of other stressors. Scheduling, security, Flight Ops, dispatchers, bus drivers, ramp agents, loaders, handlers, Dangerous Good Specialists, mechanics, fuelers, tug drivers, duty officers, ramp contol, ATC, cab drivers, bellmen, and hotel front desk personnel, all trying to do the best they can on the wrong side of the clock. The resulting cocktail of interpersonal relationships is seldom a walk in the park that would be suited for a person who admittedly doesn't deal well with people.




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Amber... awesome! That's the kindof info I'm looking for. I could handle that. In fact, I think I'd do well with that style of managment. More than anything, I like to be able to have someone trust me to do my job, do my job, and everybody's happy!
 
C'mon...c'mon,Tony man...this is the second time I set you up to knock it outa the park and nothing,nothing maaaan!

I'm disapointed!

:insane: :)
 
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