How low can the mins go?

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Whoa there buddy, please get over yourself. What makes you that damn special? That you went to some flight academy? What makes you quality as opposed to other low-time pilots in the right seat of any jet, anywhere?


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I think you missed the approach slick.... He wasn't saying he was superior nor, did he push his school.

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The plain fact of the matter is no amount of CFI'ing, etc. adequately prpares anyone for the extreme jump of flying your first jet. Anybody who says they were not humbled thier first time piloting a jet is just trying to protect thier ego.



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I agree... I have been saying that instructing or what I call logbook padding after the first couple hundred of dual givin is a waste.

This is why I would rather take an FSA direct track grad at 300-500 hours over a burned out 1200 hour CFI any day.

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What can you, the low time, low experience pilot tell me so I can better myself to your level?

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Once again, an attack without fully understanding the post....

You did have one good point though so....rock on
rawk.gif


ILS
 
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In fact, big academies tend to overly restrict the ability to experience some things through all their rules. Being overly restrictive causes one to miss out on short runways, grass runways, actual IFR, or crosswinds to the POH limits.

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Gotta give you that... If you're interested, check out Fleet Field in Culver, IN. I did my PPL training there and also served as a flight instructor during the summer following FSA. Unfortunately, there was an fatal incident there a few weeks ago with an instructor and student both killed.
frown.gif
Back to the point though, it was great being able to operate on both hard and sod runways with REAL TREES just off the end of and also surrounding the runway (not just imaginary ones). They actually had to cut a patch out while I was there because it finally became considered a hazard to safe operations. Good times...good times. Plus, it really brings it home when trying to teach a student the important of using soft field procedures. That have that "OH...NOW I get it" look on that I'm sure I shared back then. Airports like Fleet Field are a great test for those who have always operated from comfy fields. I'm know that I'm preaching to the choir, but maybe good tidbits for others reading.

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Come back when you're an RJ Capt babysitting 300 hour F/O's and I'll pay a bit more attention.


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Will do...gotta admit though, I'm hoping for a ROTC pilot slot. I'm taking the AFOQT in the next few weeks, so your offer will hopefully have to wait for a bit. I'm sure, however, that ACs in the military sometimes feel like they do a little babysitting.

Good talkin' to ya',
Check_Six
 
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Will do...gotta admit though, I'm hoping for a ROTC pilot slot. I'm taking the AFOQT in the next few weeks, so your offer will hopefully have to wait for a bit. I'm sure, however, that ACs in the military sometimes feel like they do a little babysitting.

Good talkin' to ya',
Check_Six

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I don't have to babysit anybody..........and am glad to not have to.
 
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I agree... I have been saying that instructing or what I call logbook padding after the first couple hundred of dual givin is a waste.


ILS

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I wouldn't call instructing simple logbook padding. In the same way, that can be said of many types of flying ops, once it's been done for awhile. With that logic, why should an airline pilot still log his hours?
 
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This is why I would rather take an FSA direct track grad at 300-500 hours over a burned out 1200 hour CFI any day

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Explain your reasoning here. Take them for what? Im confused are you a FSA instructor?
 
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and 300 hour pilots scare the hell out of him

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I hate to come out swinging but......maybe it was you that scared the hell out of him at 300 hours.


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while it's all great and well that your father has so much experience you can't honeslty believe a 300 hour pilot could replace him.

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That is not what he was saying captain Otter.

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I have just over 1,000 hours and just got hired to fly a Twin Otter. I think my experience matches the responsibilities and capabilities of the aircraft and of sitting right seat in a fixed gear twin that tops out at about 140kts.

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Either... A) you have a confidence problem or.... B) you were not as focused as you would like to believe if your capabilities stop at a twin with fixed gear busting 140 knots.

I will give you credit for admitting it though.


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I went through Part 61 training

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Well, there you have it....

ILS
 
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I went through Part 61 training

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Well, there you have it....

ILS

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Well that's pretty uncalled for.....snippeting a message out of context like that.

As if 141 training would make one iota of difference.
 
"In my personal experience, I've found many pilots who feel I don't belong because of my qualifications when I started at my previous carrier. I never "paid my dues."

Well. You didn't pay your dues in the old school traditional sense. You yourself talk about how hard it was for you and how much extra you had to put forth to succeed. Perhaps these other pilots you speak of run into low timers without your attitude or desire and put you in a box with them. I hardly blame them, it's up to YOU to dispel the "low timer" myth. Good luck. You'd never convince me. I'm glad it will never be my problem.

Getting through IOE only shows a bare minimum standard as set by company training that is designed to get guys out on the line. Trust me, I've been there. I was really glad I had years of experience to fall back on to fill in the gaps. A 400 hour guy doesn't have that. I'm not saying a 1500 hour guy does, he might and he might not, but a 400 hour guy from an ab initio program most certainly doesn't.

I also think lowering the bar with experience levels is a great way for management to keep lowering the bar with respect to pilot compensation.
 
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I also think lowering the bar with experience levels is a great way for management to keep lowering the bar with respect to pilot compensation.

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Why is it only low time pilots are defending the idea that low timers are just as comparable as high time pilots?
 
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You didn't pay your dues in the old school traditional sense. You yourself talk about how hard it was for you and how much extra you had to put forth to succeed. Perhaps these other pilots you speak of run into low timers without your attitude or desire and put you in a box with them. I hardly blame them, it's up to YOU to dispel the "low timer" myth. Good luck. You'd never convince me. I'm glad it will never be my problem

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Im a little lost here. What exactly are you saying. Are you saying no matter what he does at this point, he isnt going to convince you or what? What does he need to do, quit and flying banners for a summer?
 
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disagree with your and your father.

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I met his father at Flight Safety. Had some great talks with him while he was visiting Check6. He has more time (with United), experience, A/C under his belt, Military A/C under his belt, and check airman time than you have period... But I guess since you are so great DE72, we should all bow down and kiss your a$$.

God forbid, another senior guy in the industry beleives they can train a 300 hour pilot to fly a CRJ. They do it in the military and over sea's all the time big guy.

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That's why part 61 little school guys can be just as good as FSA.


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Can and does happen....the percentage is low.

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And you think you have an open mind?

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More open than yours kingpin..
 
CLR4ILS

This was a great thread until you got all sarcastic. I'm betting this one is soon to be in the Loo. You should stick to the FSA fourms or learn to be nice and play with others....
 
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As if 141 training would make one iota of difference.

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Kind of like in the military.....NO MAN GETS LEFT BEHIND..


In 141....No lesson gets left behind...

ILS
 
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I went through Part 61 training



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Well, there you have it....

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I'm kinda curious on this one, too. I instruct both Part 61 and Part 141. Know what the difference is? I have to do more paperwork for the 141. Same syllabus, same instructor, same airplane. Marketting people will tell you 141 is better, but it depends on the student. Personally, I think it's so they can get away with charging $400 for a "formal ground school."

And for my take on this whole thing.....

I'm a low timer, and personally flying a jet would scare the crap out of me right now. I'm confident I could handle it with proper training, but I would still be apprehensive. I would NOT enter IOE thinking "I'm a stud and can handle this" only to wash out three weeks later b/c I was behind the airplane so much I was wallowing in wake turbulence. IF one gets hired with low time, they should see it as an opportunity, not a RIGHT. Personally, I agree with the guys on here that the bar is being lowered. A good point was made that people want jet jobs at 400 hours then complain about how little they make. The two go hand in hand.

And to those that called CFIing "logbook padding" thanks for insulting my job. Personally, I'm not a big fan of saving landings 3 feet off the ground because I don't want my student to flip the plane, making sure the guy in the seat next to me doesn't bust Class B or do something to get ME violated or any of the other things I deal with on a daily basis. Glad to know some people think all we do is stare out the window at the shiny jets wishing we were them.....
 
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As if 141 training would make one iota of difference.

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Kind of like in the military.....NO MAN GETS LEFT BEHIND..


In 141....No lesson gets left behind...

ILS

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Just because a school has a 141 tag, doesn't make them great. When you have the majority of the places using grads as CFIs, who themselves have little experience, what more are they training other than basic rote? Of course there are exceptions to this....there are 141 schools that have experienced guys; just as there are 61 schools with experienced as well as inexperienced people. So my point is, one isn't so great over the other just because of the paperwork, or syllabus. It's the people that matter.

So a sweeping generalization can't be made, one way or the other.
 
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