How do you live...

Here is my rant-

Want more pay? Remove the strict regulations.
Being a pilot seems extreemly tough. And yes they do deserve $20,$30,$70,$100 P/H wages. But when you can only fly a max of umm... 80 hours a month, how do you honestly expect to make a huge wage?

I don't make anything close to what pilots make, but I know the key to more money. More hours, Overtime, and 2nd job. Last year, while going to school (19 units of course work, Bio/Algebra/Hist/Sociology/Art/PhysED) I worked 3 jobs to achieve my financial goals. Thats right 3 jobs. 40 hours in retail, another 17 hours as a tutor, and about 10 hours helping customers at a financial company.

I'm not comparing my work to pilots work, but a good paying job requires but 2 keys.
1) Good hourly Wage (which pilots seem to have already)
2) Hours. Lots of hours.
 
Remove the strict regulations.
Remove the strict regulations.
Oh and
Remove the strict regulations.
I am not refering to the unions, but to the FAA A.K.A Government
 
JohnGalt said:
And yes they do deserve $20,$30,$70,$100 P/H wages. But when you can only fly a max of umm... 80 hours a month, how do you honestly expect to make a huge wage?
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You're on the right track. The max you can work is 30 hours in every 7 days, and out of those 7 days you must have at least one day off, So really, it's 30 hours per 6 days, with one day off. Then, You've got the 100 hours/month deal.

Keep in mind, #1, this is FAR Block time (which, at my company, equals Out time to In time, doesn't count pushback) and #2, this is simply the hours flown. On my last trip, I had one day that BLOCKED 2 hours, 40 minutes, of which 1:20 of that was a deadhead. But I left home at 5:00 AM, worked until about two, and then sat in a hotel. But I was only paid for those 2:40. How many jobs are there like that?

The key here is "soft time". We are guaranteed 3 hours per day minimum when we show up for work. So that 2:40 becomes 3:00 pay. Now, we are also paid 1 hour of flight for every 2 hours on "duty". I was on duty about 7 hours that day. So, the highest of those times, Flight time, Min day pay, and duty day (3:30 in this case) I get paid. I also picked this trip up in open time, which is time and a half. So I turned 2:40 into 5:15 worth of pay.

The next day was better, 6:45, which equals about 10:00 or so in pay. And the best part about that day was the entire day was canceled due to MX. I sat in a hotel all day, and was deadheaded home 2 hours after my scheduled block in time, so that deadhead (@ 1:20x1.5=~1:55) gets added. Now we're up to 16:10 of pay for a two day = $370.00 for flying 1:11 ! Not bad for first year pay. Not only that, but those hours go on top of my min guarantee.

The record at my company was 183 hours of credit time in one month, and actually working 4 days.

While this isn't great $$, by picking up one 2-day trip a month and bidding reserve, I go to work about 10-12 days/month, and credit 90+ hours each month.

~wheelsup

P.S.
Remove the strict regulations.
Remove the strict regulations.
Oh and
Remove the strict regulations.
I am not refering to the unions, but to the FAA A.K.A Government
Click to expand...

Those "strict" regulations are there to prevent accidents from fatigue from happening. Let's see how you feel after waking up at 3:30 AM and working until 8:30 PM. Guess what, it's LEGAL!!
 
John you're obviously not a professional pilot to be making that statement and don't listen to a thing most guys that do this for a living have to say about getting back from trips dead tired. Can't say I'm there yet either, but it seems to be a pretty general rule.
 
VicariousLiving said:
I suggest you do some research (IOW, read 14CFR61) and come back when you know WTF you are talking about. For the record, the number of people holding both an ATP and a commercial certificate is zero, zilch, zip, nada.
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Seems like I struck a nerve, pointing out you can't use wholesale numbers from the FAA. Something a "macro economics" guru should have accounted for. Ok, so I wasn't absoloutely clear in one point (ATP supercedes the commercial but only in class, I.e. a Multi engine ATP will have commercial single privileges - if said person had a commercial single when they did the ride for multi ATP). The rest of my point remains intact.

No, but one can be clueless and sound okay for a second or two--take yourself as a perfect example.
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Don't know where the hostility is coming from but feel free to make yourself look like an even bigger @$$.
 
NJA_Capt said:
0. Good try but no dice. It reads ATP License... yada yada "commercial privileges" it does not say commercial license. I know a guy that holds an ATP Single and Multi engine Land and Sea, do you think they counted him 4 times? (rhetorical).
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Don't know what the beef is with ya except you seem to have to prove yourself right ...

No, but your friend had to take several checkrides. Someone who just gets an ATP in MultiEngine Land will still have commercial (or private, etc.) priviliges in the other class(es) if that's what they held prior to the ATP checkride. Therefore someone like this (ATP in one class, commercial in others) would be counted several times.

Actually he is not counted in the list because the numbers are for active ATP certificates. (i.e., recent 135/121 checkride)
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He has commercial helicopter and single engine land/sea priviliges and since there are no currency rules outside the BFR (no direct FAA involvement, i.e. checkrides) for part 91 he is counted in the commercial ranks.


Because any law school grad can set his own "firm" the day after graduation. Not many MAPD/CAPT/ATP/FSI grads are setting up their own airline. ATPs website says that 120 of their grads got hired in the last 12 months. How many grads did they have total, a few thousand? Makes you wonder where the other few thousand pilots went eh?
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Well now, if supply and demand worked completely oblivious to any kind of outside force this might stand up. Supply and demand would state that 12:1 ratio PER YEAR should drive the value of a law degree almost to nothing within short order, yet it hasn't. See last quote.

YYYYYea. Good luck with that.
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John Herreshoff said:
It's because he hates America...and because he's a ninja
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I don't hate America!

















I hate every thing, one, baby and kitten equally.


And I am a ninja.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Yeah, something tells me that 602 hasn't read those . . . :sarcasm:
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Well, if he's read them and doesn't understand that there is zero overlap between ATP certificate holders and commercial certificate holders it doesn't say much for his comprehension skills, now does it?
 
VicariousLiving said:
Well, if he's read them and doesn't understand that there is zero overlap between ATP certificate holders and commercial certificate holders it doesn't say much for his comprehension skills, now does it?
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Speaking of comprehension skills it seems you convinently skipped over my post.

Selective reading/arguing isn't really a valid arguing/debate style. But, feel free to try all you like! :nana2:
 
pilot602 said:
Not really. Do majors pay more than regionals for first year pilots? Yes.
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Newhire payrates aren't much of an indicator of anything, especially when no major has been hiring for years.

My point is that pilot payrates are finding the market rate. A rather ugly and disorderly process. In your dad's day there was no connection at all between payrates at ALPA carriers and the actual supply of pilots. Because of that the disparity between pay at an ALPA carrier and pay for any other flying job in the aviation business was huge.

You are now seeing those rates move together.
 
pilot602 said:
As a side note; riddle me this, explain how every year law schools in the U.S. graduate upwards of 12 students per law position in the U.S. and explain how their pay as an industry average hasn't decreased. Last I knew a 12:1 ration is a lot worse than a 4:1 ratio.
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What's your source on that? I'm just curious because I don't think that's correct, but I can't find anything to either refute it or confirm it. My understanding is that in recent years lawyers have been graduating into a glutted market and it's been pretty tough. But that is just anecdotal, I can't find the numbers.

Supposedly one big problem is the growing use of para-legals and computer based document services.
 
JohnGalt said:
Here is my rant-

Want more pay? Remove the strict regulations.
Being a pilot seems extreemly tough. And yes they do deserve $20,$30,$70,$100 P/H wages. But when you can only fly a max of umm... 80 hours a month, how do you honestly expect to make a huge wage?
Click to expand...

Come on back when you've seen how much work is actually involved in an 80 hour flight time month when it comes to duty time and TAFB (Time Away From Base).
 
Mr_Creepy said:
When did they start DE - was that in 1996? or 1997?

It was something like that the first year wasn't it?
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I'm know a guy intimately familiar with the 96 contract and it was more than $20K the first year.
 
Mr_Creepy said:
I found it - works out to about $24k first year.

I have a copy here, just couldn't find it.
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Actually, during ground school it was $2000/month before you're aircraft qualified, and then it was $33/hr once you were qual'ed.

I think it worked out to a little over $30 the first year.

Close though, but no cee-gar! :)

Speaking of cigars, you can get Cuban's right here on the Riviera, but I'm not a cigar guy, so so what! :)
 
This was for Delta Express?

I am showing $2000 for ground school and then $27.50/hr with a 70 hr guarantee. Pr Diem appears to be 1.35/hr.

Contract year as of June 1997.
 
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