History of the No Furlough Clause

How fat is ASA? I mean how many pilots are we talking are on reserve each day there as compared to what you think is a proper number? I keep hearing this at my company from our reserve pilots whom really do not seem to understand how the reserve system was made to work. Since they are not breaking guarantee they think we are OVER staffed. However they forget to realize that reserves are made for coverage. They are not suppose to be breaking guarantee at a properly staffed airline. Hell ask the pilots at SWA/UAL/DAL and see how many hours they fly a year! I know many SWA guys who barely flew 300 hours over the last two years.
 
Trip7 said:
Leased? I thought Delta owns the planes.
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No they lease/finance them from Bombardier. When Delta went through Ch.11 they went to Bombardier and and got lower lease payments and shortened the term of the leases. We (Comair) actually pay the leases on our remaining 15 -700's and 13 -900's. Of course Delta backs the leases in case we default. I know 60 of our -200 were bough outright when we were an independant company before the Delta buyout. You guys also purchased a buch as well before they buyout.
 
aevfo said:
more comfortable then being furloughed
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hah. . .I suppose.

I guess if you're furloughed and unemployed then yes. Or if you're furloughed and working at McDonald's, then yes. But if you're furloughed and your QOL and pay are 4 times what it was while an active pilot - eeeeh - not so much. ;)
 
meyers9163 said:
How fat is ASA? I mean how many pilots are we talking are on reserve each day there as compared to what you think is a proper number? I keep hearing this at my company from our reserve pilots whom really do not seem to understand how the reserve system was made to work. Since they are not breaking guarantee they think we are OVER staffed. However they forget to realize that reserves are made for coverage. They are not suppose to be breaking guarantee at a properly staffed airline. Hell ask the pilots at SWA/UAL/DAL and see how many hours they fly a year! I know many SWA guys who barely flew 300 hours over the last two years.
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Most of us on reserve at ASA have been getting close to or breaking guarantee this summer. I am in the new furlough wave and have broken guarantee every month since April 08 except Sept 08 and Oct 08. In our latest 'Crew Informer' it was noted that September lines and reserves will be similar to what we've seen all summer due to the furloughs and the training suck for displacements.

While we will be fat over the fall/winter, if things are normal next spring and summer, we will be very short. There are a lot of people worried about ASA not finding flying for the 20 200s next spring, but keep in mind that our contract with Delta is based on percentages of overall DCI and Atlanta DCI flying, not on the number of airframes we have.

As for the no furlough clause, I think the senior pilots in the group will be all too happy to amend the language if they are threatened with 75 hour lines for months on end again. But that's just the cynic in me speaking.
 
PBS will be on property before any of us are called back. I bet a case of Jack on it.

One bet I hope I don't win. ;)
 
surreal1221 said:
PBS will be on property before any of us are called back. I bet a case of Jack on it.

One bet I hope I don't win. ;)
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I'm with you - I'm betting the company gives into most of the union's demands on PBS this fall so that they can have it on property by spring. We'll see!
 
I got my walking papers at Mesa pretty quick after PBS was implemented. Everyone said it didn't have anything to do with one another but I don't know that anyone disagrees that PBS allows the company to create more efficient schedules -- why else would they want it?
 
surreal1221 said:
PBS will be on property before any of us are called back. I bet a case of Jack on it.

One bet I hope I don't win. ;)
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I really don't see the pilots voting it in. Just about everyone I have spoken to says f no. Most were considering it before the furlough and downgrade, now everyone says the company can go f themselves. It would surprise me though if the company doesn't push it more. The f/a's have agreed to it and they were just waiting on us to agree so they could implement the same program.
 
gtpilot said:
While we will be fat over the fall/winter, if things are normal next spring and summer, we will be very short. There are a lot of people worried about ASA not finding flying for the 20 200s next spring, but keep in mind that our contract with Delta is based on percentages of overall DCI and Atlanta DCI flying, not on the number of airframes we have.

As for the no furlough clause, I think the senior pilots in the group will be all too happy to amend the language if they are threatened with 75 hour lines for months on end again. But that's just the cynic in me speaking.
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"Our" contract actually now reads SkyWest Inc, if you are referring to the 80% portion of flying through ATL. It read ASA originally and was then changed to read SkyWest Inc. during the tail end of our contract negotiations. You can decide for yourself why.

So if we just park those airframes it will not be a good thing. It would be better having those airframes go to another carrier(not likely in this economy) or ASA finds a home somewhere to fly them pro-rate or at risk.

If the rumor mill got started about wavering on the no furlough clause I think there would be a lot of knocking on the door at Norman Berry Dr. And it wouldn't just be me by myself. Furloughing not only hurts those getting furloughed but also budgets elsewhere. I think the senior folks will be fine until spring.
 
ifrcfi said:
"Our" contract actually now reads SkyWest Inc, if you are referring to the 80% portion of flying through ATL. It read ASA originally and was then changed to read SkyWest Inc. during the tail end of our contract negotiations. You can decide for yourself why.

So if we just park those airframes it will not be a good thing. It would be better having those airframes go to another carrier(not likely in this economy) or ASA finds a home somewhere to fly them pro-rate or at risk.

If the rumor mill got started about wavering on the no furlough clause I think there would be a lot of knocking on the door at Norman Berry Dr. And it wouldn't just be me by myself. Furloughing not only hurts those getting furloughed but also budgets elsewhere. I think the senior folks will be fine until spring.
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You are correct sir! But again, our contract is tied to percentages and the only way ASA loses a share is if Skywest picks it up. In that case, our no furlough clause is rock solid. Not saying the company wouldn't try though....

As for the senior folks, many of us on the furlough list believe they are responsible for both rounds of furloughs. The first round should not have been necessary until this fall IF we had kept line values around 75 hours. From a company perspective it would have been far more cost effective to keep the line values down then furlough 80 junior FOs. Also notice before this round there were no COMAs or early outs offered before hand.

I have no illusions of entitlement for my year and a half of seniority, but there are many senior captains and FOs who are not shy about publicly discussing how awful living on 'just' 75 hours was. Ah, well, don't mind me. -end rant-
 
gtpilot said:
You are correct sir! But again, our contract is tied to percentages and the only way ASA loses a share is if Skywest picks it up. In that case, our no furlough clause is rock solid. Not saying the company wouldn't try though....

As for the senior folks, many of us on the furlough list believe they are responsible for both rounds of furloughs. The first round should not have been necessary until this fall IF we had kept line values around 75 hours. From a company perspective it would have been far more cost effective to keep the line values down then furlough 80 junior FOs. Also notice before this round there were no COMAs or early outs offered before hand.

I have no illusions of entitlement for my year and a half of seniority, but there are many senior captains and FOs who are not shy about publicly discussing how awful living on 'just' 75 hours was. Ah, well, don't mind me. -end rant-
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I couldn't agree with you more on this issue. It is embarrassing how many pilots we have that live outside their means. I am a huge fan of NOT adding/picking up anything when pilots are on furlough. The sad reality is that we have pilots who do.
 
ifrcfi said:
I couldn't agree with you more on this issue. It is embarrassing how many pilots we have that live outside their means. I am a huge fan of NOT adding/picking up anything when pilots are on furlough. The sad reality is that we have pilots who do.
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And these same folks want us to just shut our mouths and not call them out on it because, heard it most recently: You guys got COBRA paid for.

Gee thanks.
 
surreal1221 said:
And these same folks want us to just shut our mouths and not call them out on it because, heard it most recently: You guys got COBRA paid for.

Gee thanks.
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Has anyone actually gotten reimbursed for COBRA? I figure the new wave won't see anything (it would require another vote) but I was curious if our union managed to disburse anything yet.
 
gtpilot said:
Has anyone actually gotten reimbursed for COBRA? I figure the new wave won't see anything (it would require another vote) but I was curious if our union managed to disburse anything yet.
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At the last LEC meeting the report was, "the checks are in the mail." That was all most two months ago so I would assume yes it has been disbursed.

Some interesting news Standard and Poor's changed SkyWest Inc stock from a strong sell to a buy based on " the expectation of increased capacity next year." With ASA potentially parking 20 CRJ 200's and SkyWest losing a home for 10 CRJ 200's with Midwest where is the increase in capacity going to come from?
 
Super dooper top secret Banksta gossip.

Bastards are running (and ruining) our lives.

Good to see you around here though ifrcfi. ;)

Check out the M&G section. Would love to finally be able to put a face to the name.
 
Trip7 said:
Leased? I thought Delta owns the planes.
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Nope. Like Howard said, re-negotiated terms in the bankruptcy. Ask Mesaba how those Saab leases are working out for Delta, too.

For the record, they also lease our -200s. Essentially, Pinnacle is a crew rental company with 16 -900s.
 
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