Hiring Grads?
- Thread starter zanclick
- Start date
Mavmb
Well-Known Member
My two cents: John Tenny's right. PFT-sucks. You won't get respect trying to buy your way through anything in life and ask yourself if you should. Otherwise, good luck to you. Any career you pick for yourself is worth it as long as you are ready to accept the sacrifices it will take! And if you want to be an airline pilot, to me those sacrifices sound like a lot of years of low pay, unstable work, and lots of time away from home.
Those are the sacrifices I'm worried about at least. If I eventually get married or anything maybe I'll switch careers, but for now I'm single and enjoy what I'm doing, so here I am, a cfi with very little income. Good luck!
Those are the sacrifices I'm worried about at least. If I eventually get married or anything maybe I'll switch careers, but for now I'm single and enjoy what I'm doing, so here I am, a cfi with very little income. Good luck!
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In the other side, the pilots I like flying with the least are freight dogs. Even though they are usually "great sticks" and know ATC inside and out, they tend to disregard weather and go blasting right through solid echoes on the radar. This may be ok for cargo (debatable) but it isn't ok for passengers. I stay CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR of thunderstorms. No future in that stuff!
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Now, now....I'm a former freight dog. Boxes don't care about the turbulance and don't complain. I often went blasting through TSTMS, but mainly that was because it was night and I had no radar......
In the other side, the pilots I like flying with the least are freight dogs. Even though they are usually "great sticks" and know ATC inside and out, they tend to disregard weather and go blasting right through solid echoes on the radar. This may be ok for cargo (debatable) but it isn't ok for passengers. I stay CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR of thunderstorms. No future in that stuff!
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Now, now....I'm a former freight dog. Boxes don't care about the turbulance and don't complain. I often went blasting through TSTMS, but mainly that was because it was night and I had no radar......
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"They all made pretty good FOs but their radio skills were poor. Their judgement was limited by lack of experience. Even though many of them are great people and good friends, I feel safety is compromised when an airline doesn't take the most experienced pilots available, but instead sells out and takes whoever ponies up the most cash."
Holy Crap...that's about a direct quote from what my check airman/captain buddies at Mesa have said over the years about MAPD grads....
"300hr pilots shouldn't be in the right seat of an RJ, period"...that's a direct quote from yours, truly, DE727UPS...a 727 F/O for UPS.
VSnick...I've seen nothing in John Tenney's posts I'd consider inaccurate...in case you were wondering.
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hehe, DE. I agree about some of the Mesa planes and other commuters I've heard in my time over the airwaves.
Regards the 300 hours being in the FO seat: To play devils advocate, there's F-15/16 guys out there (fly around Luke AFB) that have about that much TT, as do the co-pilots of the bombers/transports of the AF.
Though could be apples and oranges I'm comparing.
"They all made pretty good FOs but their radio skills were poor. Their judgement was limited by lack of experience. Even though many of them are great people and good friends, I feel safety is compromised when an airline doesn't take the most experienced pilots available, but instead sells out and takes whoever ponies up the most cash."
Holy Crap...that's about a direct quote from what my check airman/captain buddies at Mesa have said over the years about MAPD grads....
"300hr pilots shouldn't be in the right seat of an RJ, period"...that's a direct quote from yours, truly, DE727UPS...a 727 F/O for UPS.
VSnick...I've seen nothing in John Tenney's posts I'd consider inaccurate...in case you were wondering.
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hehe, DE. I agree about some of the Mesa planes and other commuters I've heard in my time over the airwaves.
Regards the 300 hours being in the FO seat: To play devils advocate, there's F-15/16 guys out there (fly around Luke AFB) that have about that much TT, as do the co-pilots of the bombers/transports of the AF.
Though could be apples and oranges I'm comparing.
Mr_Creepy
Well-Known Member
Mike this may sound weird, but think about it. An F-16 pilot has fewer lives at stake (in terms of pilot safety.) Also, the USAF and others have a tremendous training program with incredible standardization.
While there is no substitute for experience, somehow I don't feel so bad about 300 hr guys flying F-16s. There aren't many 8000 hr guys vying for the job either
While there is no substitute for experience, somehow I don't feel so bad about 300 hr guys flying F-16s. There aren't many 8000 hr guys vying for the job either
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Mike this may sound weird, but think about it. An F-16 pilot has fewer lives at stake (in terms of pilot safety.) Also, the USAF and others have a tremendous training program with incredible standardization.
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That's the idea I was working at. And that's one of the few examples where 300 hour pilots flying high performance jets doesn't bother me too much.
Mike this may sound weird, but think about it. An F-16 pilot has fewer lives at stake (in terms of pilot safety.) Also, the USAF and others have a tremendous training program with incredible standardization.
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That's the idea I was working at. And that's one of the few examples where 300 hour pilots flying high performance jets doesn't bother me too much.
Not trying to bash Mesa (insert standard disclaimer here) but while getting vectored for an approach into PHL last month when the weather was dog feces, PHL approach says:
"Air Shuttle 1234, turn left heading XXX, maintain XXXX until established, cleared ILS runway XX approach, landing RVR is 4000"
Air Shuttle: "Standby one..."
(pause)
Air Shuttle: "We need 1800 RVR for the approach".
PHL approach: "Yes sir, RVR is currently 4000."
Air Shuttle: "We're going to have to divert"
Unknown Jet: "You're ok, dummy!"
Air Shuttle: "That was, uhh, professional, but we're going to have to divert to our alternate"
PHL approach: (keys mike and pauses) "... Uhh, landing RVR is four THOUSAND, sir, that's four with three zeroes behind it. Air Shuttle 123, turn left heading XXX, climb and maintain 5000, break, Delta 123 cleared ILS XX approach, contact tower NOW"
Eek!
"Air Shuttle 1234, turn left heading XXX, maintain XXXX until established, cleared ILS runway XX approach, landing RVR is 4000"
Air Shuttle: "Standby one..."
(pause)
Air Shuttle: "We need 1800 RVR for the approach".
PHL approach: "Yes sir, RVR is currently 4000."
Air Shuttle: "We're going to have to divert"
Unknown Jet: "You're ok, dummy!"
Air Shuttle: "That was, uhh, professional, but we're going to have to divert to our alternate"
PHL approach: (keys mike and pauses) "... Uhh, landing RVR is four THOUSAND, sir, that's four with three zeroes behind it. Air Shuttle 123, turn left heading XXX, climb and maintain 5000, break, Delta 123 cleared ILS XX approach, contact tower NOW"
Eek!
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
For what it's worth, I'm gonna throw my two cents worth in:
I have a friend that is leaving for Mesa next month. He's already gotten screwed by ATA, so I am AMAZED he still wants to go through with all of this. He was about half-way through their AirStage 2 program, so he has around 30ish (maybe) hours of multi and a shade under 300 total. Personally, as the industry stands right now, I would not want to pay that kind of money for a 5 month or so program only to be put on a waiting list. If the industry was strong (ala late 90s), I'd jump on it PFT be damned.
I don't want to go the FBO route b/c I don't want to take FOREVER getting time and ratings. I have nothing against it, it's just not for me. I'm going to ERAU for several reasons, one of which being the availibility of student loans/grants/whatever. Sallie Mae just doesn't cover all I need at the FBO. I also want the college degree, and I have a hard time sticking with things that don't really interest me.
Daytona is only about an hour from Orlando, and I can still KEEP my full time job on the ramp at MCO.
Now, how am I gonna pay for all this when I'm out? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. A lot of the tuition is actually coming out of the mad overtime I've been working all summer (which is kinda stringing my Instrument rating out long than I had hoped). In the end, I will only have had to borrow about as much as I would have to get all of my ratings anyway. In addition to all the ratings (including CFI, CFII and MEI), I'll have a college degree. If I have to instruct somewhere, I don't mind. Assuming certain people are still there, I might have a good shot at Air Orlando getting a CFI job if I need it.
All I know is I'd rather be flying anything and making peanuts than spinning my wheels. For those of you who feel like you're slaves to the airline, try working for Disney for five years.
$6.30/hr to listen to people yell at you about things that aren't your fault, working long hours, and the occasional 'oh yeah, we need you to close tonight and work tomorrow morning, even though it's your day off.' To me, it sounds like a regional is about the same, but maybe a little less tourist hassle and a tad more $$$ for the trouble.
I have a friend that is leaving for Mesa next month. He's already gotten screwed by ATA, so I am AMAZED he still wants to go through with all of this. He was about half-way through their AirStage 2 program, so he has around 30ish (maybe) hours of multi and a shade under 300 total. Personally, as the industry stands right now, I would not want to pay that kind of money for a 5 month or so program only to be put on a waiting list. If the industry was strong (ala late 90s), I'd jump on it PFT be damned.
I don't want to go the FBO route b/c I don't want to take FOREVER getting time and ratings. I have nothing against it, it's just not for me. I'm going to ERAU for several reasons, one of which being the availibility of student loans/grants/whatever. Sallie Mae just doesn't cover all I need at the FBO. I also want the college degree, and I have a hard time sticking with things that don't really interest me.
Now, how am I gonna pay for all this when I'm out? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. A lot of the tuition is actually coming out of the mad overtime I've been working all summer (which is kinda stringing my Instrument rating out long than I had hoped). In the end, I will only have had to borrow about as much as I would have to get all of my ratings anyway. In addition to all the ratings (including CFI, CFII and MEI), I'll have a college degree. If I have to instruct somewhere, I don't mind. Assuming certain people are still there, I might have a good shot at Air Orlando getting a CFI job if I need it.
All I know is I'd rather be flying anything and making peanuts than spinning my wheels. For those of you who feel like you're slaves to the airline, try working for Disney for five years.
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
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I don't want to go the FBO route b/c I don't want to take FOREVER getting time and ratings. I have nothing against it, it's just not for me.
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Amen kellwolf! The FBO route isn't for everybody. You HAVE to have patience and realize that it is going to take a lot of time to get through all of your ratings.
Generally though, the ones I know or have spoken to on this board who are doing the FBO route, like me, have full-time jobs, families, mortgages, etc. and the FBO route offers a good balance between keeping your job/income and getting your ratings.
It does take much longer though.
I know of one individual on this site that started at one of the big named academies (with under 100 hrs. and his PPL in his pocket) about the same time I started with Zero at the local FBO.
He is now finished with all of his ratings through CFI/MEI, but he is not instructing. He is working outside the aviation field until something opens up.
If the industry keeps going the way it's, I'll finish all of my ratings (in about 6 months or so) and he and I will probably get our first instructing jobs around the same time.
Who knows?
Do what is best for you and your situation.
I don't want to go the FBO route b/c I don't want to take FOREVER getting time and ratings. I have nothing against it, it's just not for me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Amen kellwolf! The FBO route isn't for everybody. You HAVE to have patience and realize that it is going to take a lot of time to get through all of your ratings.
Generally though, the ones I know or have spoken to on this board who are doing the FBO route, like me, have full-time jobs, families, mortgages, etc. and the FBO route offers a good balance between keeping your job/income and getting your ratings.
It does take much longer though.
I know of one individual on this site that started at one of the big named academies (with under 100 hrs. and his PPL in his pocket) about the same time I started with Zero at the local FBO.
He is now finished with all of his ratings through CFI/MEI, but he is not instructing. He is working outside the aviation field until something opens up.
If the industry keeps going the way it's, I'll finish all of my ratings (in about 6 months or so) and he and I will probably get our first instructing jobs around the same time.
Who knows?
Do what is best for you and your situation.
MoabMic
Well-Known Member
Now I could be wrong but if there is a junior cap flying w/less than 100hrs PIC then aren't the mins raised by 100+1/2? I'm just curious. If so then the guy was right in declining the approach right?
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Not trying to bash Mesa (insert standard disclaimer here) but while getting vectored for an approach into PHL last month when the weather was dog feces, PHL approach says:
"Air Shuttle 1234, turn left heading XXX, maintain XXXX until established, cleared ILS runway XX approach, landing RVR is 4000"
Air Shuttle: "Standby one..."
(pause)
Air Shuttle: "We need 1800 RVR for the approach".
PHL approach: "Yes sir, RVR is currently 4000."
Air Shuttle: "We're going to have to divert"
Unknown Jet: "You're ok, dummy!"
Air Shuttle: "That was, uhh, professional, but we're going to have to divert to our alternate"
PHL approach: (keys mike and pauses) "... Uhh, landing RVR is four THOUSAND, sir, that's four with three zeroes behind it. Air Shuttle 123, turn left heading XXX, climb and maintain 5000, break, Delta 123 cleared ILS XX approach, contact tower NOW"
Eek!
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not trying to bash Mesa (insert standard disclaimer here) but while getting vectored for an approach into PHL last month when the weather was dog feces, PHL approach says:
"Air Shuttle 1234, turn left heading XXX, maintain XXXX until established, cleared ILS runway XX approach, landing RVR is 4000"
Air Shuttle: "Standby one..."
(pause)
Air Shuttle: "We need 1800 RVR for the approach".
PHL approach: "Yes sir, RVR is currently 4000."
Air Shuttle: "We're going to have to divert"
Unknown Jet: "You're ok, dummy!"
Air Shuttle: "That was, uhh, professional, but we're going to have to divert to our alternate"
PHL approach: (keys mike and pauses) "... Uhh, landing RVR is four THOUSAND, sir, that's four with three zeroes behind it. Air Shuttle 123, turn left heading XXX, climb and maintain 5000, break, Delta 123 cleared ILS XX approach, contact tower NOW"
Eek!
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MissedApproach
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Proof that yes, Mesa hires anyone; and pays what they're worth.
[/ QUOTE ]I didn't think that any of the airlines were hiring just "anyone" nowadays. About the pay, it's supposed to be "competitive" with other regionals, however it is on the low side.
I believe almost all of the MAPD grads have spent at least a year after graduation as an MAPD instructor (some much more). The program really isn't all that different from other bridge programs.
Proof that yes, Mesa hires anyone; and pays what they're worth.
[/ QUOTE ]I didn't think that any of the airlines were hiring just "anyone" nowadays. About the pay, it's supposed to be "competitive" with other regionals, however it is on the low side.
I believe almost all of the MAPD grads have spent at least a year after graduation as an MAPD instructor (some much more). The program really isn't all that different from other bridge programs.