Hiring Grads?
- Thread starter zanclick
- Start date
For crying out loud, why does everything program out there have a catch. I talked to a guy at MAPD for over an hour today and everything sounded good. I guess it is always too good to be true. That sucks that people have been waiting two years to get onto mesa. This program sounds real good if everything works out but what if you don't get hired by mesa, then you are stuck with 300tt and no cfi's. FRUSTRATED once again. Well for me ATP is still the only school that I have talked to with no hidden agendas. By the way thanks for the website zanclick.
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This program sounds real good if everything works out but what if you don't get hired by mesa, then you are stuck with 300tt and no cfi's. FRUSTRATED once again.
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From what I understand the only way you wont get hired is if you show up late for class, flights, have a bad attitude. Thats the only way you are not going to get hired. You have to understand that this is more or less a 2 year interview with Mesa.
As for is closing down in 05, maybe. When I went to interview there were only 5 people there, and I heard in there other class that there were only 8 people. Who knows, but once hireing starts to pick up and more people apply to get into the program they wont be closing down
This program sounds real good if everything works out but what if you don't get hired by mesa, then you are stuck with 300tt and no cfi's. FRUSTRATED once again.
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From what I understand the only way you wont get hired is if you show up late for class, flights, have a bad attitude. Thats the only way you are not going to get hired. You have to understand that this is more or less a 2 year interview with Mesa.
As for is closing down in 05, maybe. When I went to interview there were only 5 people there, and I heard in there other class that there were only 8 people. Who knows, but once hireing starts to pick up and more people apply to get into the program they wont be closing down
Hey flyallday, are you currently going to Mesa? I am still interested in their program, I just don't want to get hosed. As for the two year interview goes, I think 60 grand to pay for an interview is quite excessive. By the way what is all this about them not being around in 2005. This is the first I have heard about it. Let me know what your experience is with them. Thanks alot, I think I might be going to Farmington for the interview on July 22nd.
I guess there is no ideal way to get to the regionals. This school seemed like a great route but two years is a lot of valuable time to waste for an airline career. I now have second thoughts about this program.
Just a thought, but in about two years when I or some people would graduate from the program, the airline industry just might be doing great and this wait time for the pool could be cut very rapidly, especially since the enrollment is down these days for their program. Just speculation but a very real possibilty.
Just a thought, but in about two years when I or some people would graduate from the program, the airline industry just might be doing great and this wait time for the pool could be cut very rapidly, especially since the enrollment is down these days for their program. Just speculation but a very real possibilty.
Hey zanclick, I was thinking the same exact thing. Of course nothing is ever guaranteed either way. I am also very curious about the rumors of them not being around in 2005, but this could also help us out in a way. Not that I would wish this on them, but if we started soon we could be some of the last people to complete this program and I think that would stregthen our chances for advancement. Wishful thinking I guess.
shooter13
New Member
There isn't a rumor, nor should there be. If I started one, I'd like to squash it now.
When I spoke to people at San Juan to ask about how GI bill relates to the training there (which is pretty nifty BTW), the guy asked me when I was interested in starting. i told him I had commitments until January of 2005. He said he didn't know what would be going on in 2005. He said enrollments were down pretty low and he didn't know what Mesa planned to do. He never told me there were plans to shut the school down or anything like that. His point was that if enrollment keeps dropping, they won't have any students and won't keep the program going. He also said that in the industry a fast turn around was possible and that they could even possibly expand the program. He just didn't know.
I apologize for starting any rumors.
As to the 18 months, if you go the academy route you are looking at ~6 months training followed by at least a year (if not more) of instructing. It will take the same amount of time either way. The price isn't that much different than any of the other academies.
When I spoke to people at San Juan to ask about how GI bill relates to the training there (which is pretty nifty BTW), the guy asked me when I was interested in starting. i told him I had commitments until January of 2005. He said he didn't know what would be going on in 2005. He said enrollments were down pretty low and he didn't know what Mesa planned to do. He never told me there were plans to shut the school down or anything like that. His point was that if enrollment keeps dropping, they won't have any students and won't keep the program going. He also said that in the industry a fast turn around was possible and that they could even possibly expand the program. He just didn't know.
I apologize for starting any rumors.
As to the 18 months, if you go the academy route you are looking at ~6 months training followed by at least a year (if not more) of instructing. It will take the same amount of time either way. The price isn't that much different than any of the other academies.
THanks for clearing that up shooter. But it still sounds like it is a realistic possibility that things could go south for mesa. I guess I will just have to visit and draw my own conclusions from them. Hey Zanclick, have you visited there yet, if not you should send your application in and go to that interview on the 22nd of July.
Mr_Creepy
Well-Known Member
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I guess there is no ideal way to get to the regionals. This school seemed like a great route but two years is a lot of valuable time to waste for an airline career. I now have second thoughts about this program.
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The ideal way to get to the regionals used to be get your CFI and work your way up to 2000 hrs.
Now it seems you can buy your way in.
I laugh that you are concerned about "a program a catch." Well whaddya think? They'd rather hire a 350 hr pilot than 8000? It's going to take some kind of influence (money) to do that. And there are plenty of 8000 hr pilots out there looking for work right now. And that's the catch - you are paying for a shortcut.
Everybody is in a hurry to get a job they will be sick of in 3 months. Yep, that's the average time it takes for a newly upgraded CRJ captain to get sick of it.
If everyone knew that being an airline pilot can be just as boring as bus driver (and sometimes bus drivers get more respect), maybe more would be patient about building time.
I guess there is no ideal way to get to the regionals. This school seemed like a great route but two years is a lot of valuable time to waste for an airline career. I now have second thoughts about this program.
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The ideal way to get to the regionals used to be get your CFI and work your way up to 2000 hrs.
Now it seems you can buy your way in.
I laugh that you are concerned about "a program a catch." Well whaddya think? They'd rather hire a 350 hr pilot than 8000? It's going to take some kind of influence (money) to do that. And there are plenty of 8000 hr pilots out there looking for work right now. And that's the catch - you are paying for a shortcut.
Everybody is in a hurry to get a job they will be sick of in 3 months. Yep, that's the average time it takes for a newly upgraded CRJ captain to get sick of it.
If everyone knew that being an airline pilot can be just as boring as bus driver (and sometimes bus drivers get more respect), maybe more would be patient about building time.
Hey John, thanks for being a downer. It sounds like you have some built up resentment towards people trying to find the best and quickest way to get to the regionals. What happened? Did you, yourself, have a negative experience with your flight training? If so, you should share your wisdom and experience with us, instead of taking an abstract approach that offers us no insight. Thanks
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Hey flyallday, are you currently going to Mesa? I am still interested in their program, I just don't want to get hosed. As for the two year interview goes, I think 60 grand to pay for an interview is quite excessive. By the way what is all this about them not being around in 2005. This is the first I have heard about it. Let me know what your experience is with them. Thanks alot, I think I might be going to Farmington for the interview on July 22nd.
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Well, its not really 60 grand, most people pay around 45k, but thats only including the school, not living expenses.
One great thing about the program is the planes they train in, and you also come out with a 2 year degree which is better then nothing.
I wont be going to MAPD. I couldnt get the loan.
One big reason there are so many people waiting in the pool is because of the new contract. All the CCAIR pilots have first crack at a job with Mesa then come the guys and gals in the pool.
Hey flyallday, are you currently going to Mesa? I am still interested in their program, I just don't want to get hosed. As for the two year interview goes, I think 60 grand to pay for an interview is quite excessive. By the way what is all this about them not being around in 2005. This is the first I have heard about it. Let me know what your experience is with them. Thanks alot, I think I might be going to Farmington for the interview on July 22nd.
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Well, its not really 60 grand, most people pay around 45k, but thats only including the school, not living expenses.
One great thing about the program is the planes they train in, and you also come out with a 2 year degree which is better then nothing.
I wont be going to MAPD. I couldnt get the loan.
One big reason there are so many people waiting in the pool is because of the new contract. All the CCAIR pilots have first crack at a job with Mesa then come the guys and gals in the pool.
Mr_Creepy
Well-Known Member
No I had no negative experiences in my training. I just paid my dues. I refused to spend money to short cut the system.
In my day we called it PFT. Yeah yeah, I know you've all talked about it but it still sucks.
There is no substitute for experience in aviation. How much experience can a 350 hr graduate of MAPD have?
They all made pretty good FOs but their radio skills were poor. Their judgement was limited by lack of experience. Even though many of them are great people and good friends, I feel safety is compromised when an airline doesn't take the most experienced pilots available, but instead sells out and takes whoever ponies up the most cash.
Call me disgusted!
On a positive note, Mesa is a great place to work once you get used to the pitfalls of commuter airlines. As long as you don't want to have a life, Mesa can be very enjoyable. I met some of the greatest people I know while working there. Even some San Juanies.
In my day we called it PFT. Yeah yeah, I know you've all talked about it but it still sucks.
There is no substitute for experience in aviation. How much experience can a 350 hr graduate of MAPD have?
They all made pretty good FOs but their radio skills were poor. Their judgement was limited by lack of experience. Even though many of them are great people and good friends, I feel safety is compromised when an airline doesn't take the most experienced pilots available, but instead sells out and takes whoever ponies up the most cash.
Call me disgusted!
On a positive note, Mesa is a great place to work once you get used to the pitfalls of commuter airlines. As long as you don't want to have a life, Mesa can be very enjoyable. I met some of the greatest people I know while working there. Even some San Juanies.
vsnick, I would certainly like to tour the facility. I only live about three hours away from the school. I really am planning on attending a school in February, so I can at least save some more dough.
Hey John Tenney, I am willing to work as hard as it takes to make it in aviation and am not just looking for the "easy" way out as you suggest. The "ideal" school is one without all the marketing "smoke and mirrors". I don't want to be surprised by the facts after the fact, if you know what I mean. I am tired of the marketing b.s. and just want to go to a school that fits with what I want, and so I am trying to figure out the truth. And if forty thousand dollars gets me into the right seat after 300 hrs. so be it. More power to me. I am going to spend it regardless.
Hey John Tenney, I am willing to work as hard as it takes to make it in aviation and am not just looking for the "easy" way out as you suggest. The "ideal" school is one without all the marketing "smoke and mirrors". I don't want to be surprised by the facts after the fact, if you know what I mean. I am tired of the marketing b.s. and just want to go to a school that fits with what I want, and so I am trying to figure out the truth. And if forty thousand dollars gets me into the right seat after 300 hrs. so be it. More power to me. I am going to spend it regardless.
Mr_Creepy
Well-Known Member
If you are serious about working hard, then get your CFI and go out there and pound the ramp.
The best pilots I ever flew with were experienced CFIs who also worked as rampers. They made great connections and got to fly in all sorts of different aircraft. Eventually a door opened for them and they got a great gig.
In the other side, the pilots I like flying with the least are freight dogs. Even though they are usually "great sticks" and know ATC inside and out, they tend to disregard weather and go blasting right through solid echoes on the radar. This may be ok for cargo (debatable) but it isn't ok for passengers. I stay CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR of thunderstorms. No future in that stuff!
But going to some expensive school that is going to give you opportunities just because you throw $$$ at them? You better expect to be "sold" and "marketed." The school isn't there to "provide a service to the aviation industry," but to make money.
I don't know if you've noticed, but there is no shortage of 350 hr pilots looking for airline jobs right now....
The best pilots I ever flew with were experienced CFIs who also worked as rampers. They made great connections and got to fly in all sorts of different aircraft. Eventually a door opened for them and they got a great gig.
In the other side, the pilots I like flying with the least are freight dogs. Even though they are usually "great sticks" and know ATC inside and out, they tend to disregard weather and go blasting right through solid echoes on the radar. This may be ok for cargo (debatable) but it isn't ok for passengers. I stay CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR of thunderstorms. No future in that stuff!
But going to some expensive school that is going to give you opportunities just because you throw $$$ at them? You better expect to be "sold" and "marketed." The school isn't there to "provide a service to the aviation industry," but to make money.
I don't know if you've noticed, but there is no shortage of 350 hr pilots looking for airline jobs right now....
I am having a real hard time as figuring out what your points are in you posts, John. You say that there are a multitude of pilots who are out of work right now with thousands of hours. So why are you barking at us is we want to go through a program that will give us a regional job with 300+ hours? Yes, we are paying to go through their program and they in turn will give us the opportunity to fly with them, if we are deserving. I have looked into many programs throughout the country and this one is relatively inexpensive. It sounds like you have a negative attitude towards Mesa, if so, please elaborate. I visited your website through the link you provided and it said that you are a motivational speaker. I laugh at this because everytime I see your posts on JC they are negative. I realize that you are an experienced pilot and your expertise would be appreciated but it seems all you can offer is your opinion that we are undeserving of a FO job because we don't have the hours that you did when you cracked into the regionals.
Mr_Creepy
Well-Known Member
I think it's pretty obvious. You go through the $$$ route, and take our jobs while we sit here twiddling our thumbs with 8000 hrs.
Yeah I am a motivational speaker. Doesn't mean I'm positive all the time. In fact I spend quite a bit of time trying to motivate young pilot wannabes like yourself to stay out of aviation as a profession. The reason the profession sucks so badly right now is because these schools play on people's dreams and promise them the moon. Then they get to some regional and after three months they start whining. "That school lied to me - I thought pilots would be respected. This is just another slave job!"
I love Mesa! I miss the place badly, I never should have left. In fact I want to go back.
I vent sometimes on this board and I don't hold anything back. I try to stay truthful and look at the bright side, but I've been jaded by airlines.
Sorry.
And it isn't very positive to laugh at someone's profession.
Yeah I am a motivational speaker. Doesn't mean I'm positive all the time. In fact I spend quite a bit of time trying to motivate young pilot wannabes like yourself to stay out of aviation as a profession. The reason the profession sucks so badly right now is because these schools play on people's dreams and promise them the moon. Then they get to some regional and after three months they start whining. "That school lied to me - I thought pilots would be respected. This is just another slave job!"
I love Mesa! I miss the place badly, I never should have left. In fact I want to go back.
I vent sometimes on this board and I don't hold anything back. I try to stay truthful and look at the bright side, but I've been jaded by airlines.
Sorry.
And it isn't very positive to laugh at someone's profession.
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Hey John, thanks for being a downer. It sounds like you have some built up resentment towards people trying to find the best and quickest way to get to the regionals. What happened? Did you, yourself, have a negative experience with your flight training? If so, you should share your wisdom and experience with us, instead of taking an abstract approach that offers us no insight. Thanks
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There is no 'best/quickest' way to even grill a hamburger, especially trying to land a job at an airline.
I've gone over this a billion times on this website, but the point never gets across.
The "best" thing for a particular person may range, but consistently, it's been to get training based on quality, balanced with a mix of economic realism.
That's the way the industry works. It's preparation, networking and suprisingly - luck.
I'd say that 2% of America would like to be an airline pilot. But probably 1/10 of 1% of that 2% actually have what it takes to pass the requirements of being an airline pilot. But far less actually are willing to become an airline pilot.
Does flying rubber dog poopy in Fresno, limited-English students in Des Moines, single-pilot Metroliners in N. Dakota or a answering telephones on slow days at the FBO make you cringe? You might want to rethink this career.
I'm targeting no one in general, just making a very generic "open letter"-style post to the thread participants.
Hey John, thanks for being a downer. It sounds like you have some built up resentment towards people trying to find the best and quickest way to get to the regionals. What happened? Did you, yourself, have a negative experience with your flight training? If so, you should share your wisdom and experience with us, instead of taking an abstract approach that offers us no insight. Thanks
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There is no 'best/quickest' way to even grill a hamburger, especially trying to land a job at an airline.
I've gone over this a billion times on this website, but the point never gets across.
The "best" thing for a particular person may range, but consistently, it's been to get training based on quality, balanced with a mix of economic realism.
That's the way the industry works. It's preparation, networking and suprisingly - luck.
I'd say that 2% of America would like to be an airline pilot. But probably 1/10 of 1% of that 2% actually have what it takes to pass the requirements of being an airline pilot. But far less actually are willing to become an airline pilot.
Does flying rubber dog poopy in Fresno, limited-English students in Des Moines, single-pilot Metroliners in N. Dakota or a answering telephones on slow days at the FBO make you cringe? You might want to rethink this career.
I'm targeting no one in general, just making a very generic "open letter"-style post to the thread participants.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"They all made pretty good FOs but their radio skills were poor. Their judgement was limited by lack of experience. Even though many of them are great people and good friends, I feel safety is compromised when an airline doesn't take the most experienced pilots available, but instead sells out and takes whoever ponies up the most cash."
Holy Crap...that's about a direct quote from what my check airman/captain buddies at Mesa have said over the years about MAPD grads....
"300hr pilots shouldn't be in the right seat of an RJ, period"...that's a direct quote from yours, truly, DE727UPS...a 727 F/O for UPS.
VSnick...I've seen nothing in John Tenney's posts I'd consider inaccurate...in case you were wondering.
Holy Crap...that's about a direct quote from what my check airman/captain buddies at Mesa have said over the years about MAPD grads....
"300hr pilots shouldn't be in the right seat of an RJ, period"...that's a direct quote from yours, truly, DE727UPS...a 727 F/O for UPS.
VSnick...I've seen nothing in John Tenney's posts I'd consider inaccurate...in case you were wondering.