Headsets part duex
- Thread starter mrivc211
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stuckingfk
Well-Known Member
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
Management (airline, freight, corporate, charter....) loves it when pilots put each other down. Makes it ten times easier for them to do the same.
:yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat:
That is all I have been trying to say. Steve just has a much more simple way of putting things. Guess he knows how to speak "Freight Dawg"
Sorry just couldn't resist. You guys have fun. Off to Big Bear for a week of mediocre spring skiing.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I said "in this thread." Go back and show me ONE attack from him in this thread. Go ahead, I'll wait. Yeah, he's talking about his airline might be on the downside and going somewhere else. Not one attack on the freight dawgs. If we wanna talk past attacks, I can do a search and come up with plenty from your side of the fence. I'm willing to let that go, but if you wanna play "grudge match" be my guest.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
OK, all of my posts were mostly in jest until now. I thought that would have been obvious by all the smiley faces, but apparently not. You guys (Kellwolf) are so easy to get riled up over this #### that I can't contain myself from taking pot shots. It's hilarious. :cwm27:
Do you think I really give a damn about regional pilots? I don't care if you get hired with 300 hours. I've been a CFI, do you think I blame a 500 hour CFI at some dumpy flight school for jumping ship to a slightly less dumpy regional? HELL NO! I don't even care if you suck ass at flying airplanes. There's a reason there are two of you up front. Checks and balances... for BOTH pilots. All I care about is that you get my family safely from point A to point B. And you pretty much do.
You should admit, most of your flying is fairly cushy. 2 pilots, good training, good heat and A/C, highly automated, well-equipped, well-maintained, blah blah blah. If you don't want to man up and admit that, then don't. I have plenty of friends who fly for regionals who will. So because of all that, you also have to admit, that it's pretty damn hilarious to hear a regional pilot complain about having to use the hand mic. Granted, you have plenty of issues to deal with that we freight trash don't, but it goes both ways.
I fly single pilot in an old, sparsely equipped, two-pilot airplane that 15 years ago, some of you would have been considering yourselves lucky to be in the right seat of with 1500 hours. So I *think* that qualifies me to take a guesstimate at what your workload must be like in a modern airliner with two pilots. If that puts a damper on your "badass jet pilot" ego, well... I'm not sorry. Lighten up a little.
And before you think I'm complaining about my job, I'm not. I wouldn't have it any other way. I love what I fly, I love flying freight, I work for a good company, get paid reasonably fairly, and have made some great, lifelong friends here. I wouldn't trade it for the world. So no, Kellwolf, no chip on this shoulder, but thanks for asking.
OK, I'm done.
Do you think I really give a damn about regional pilots? I don't care if you get hired with 300 hours. I've been a CFI, do you think I blame a 500 hour CFI at some dumpy flight school for jumping ship to a slightly less dumpy regional? HELL NO! I don't even care if you suck ass at flying airplanes. There's a reason there are two of you up front. Checks and balances... for BOTH pilots. All I care about is that you get my family safely from point A to point B. And you pretty much do.
You should admit, most of your flying is fairly cushy. 2 pilots, good training, good heat and A/C, highly automated, well-equipped, well-maintained, blah blah blah. If you don't want to man up and admit that, then don't. I have plenty of friends who fly for regionals who will. So because of all that, you also have to admit, that it's pretty damn hilarious to hear a regional pilot complain about having to use the hand mic. Granted, you have plenty of issues to deal with that we freight trash don't, but it goes both ways.
I fly single pilot in an old, sparsely equipped, two-pilot airplane that 15 years ago, some of you would have been considering yourselves lucky to be in the right seat of with 1500 hours. So I *think* that qualifies me to take a guesstimate at what your workload must be like in a modern airliner with two pilots. If that puts a damper on your "badass jet pilot" ego, well... I'm not sorry. Lighten up a little.
And before you think I'm complaining about my job, I'm not. I wouldn't have it any other way. I love what I fly, I love flying freight, I work for a good company, get paid reasonably fairly, and have made some great, lifelong friends here. I wouldn't trade it for the world. So no, Kellwolf, no chip on this shoulder, but thanks for asking.
OK, I'm done.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
Hey Marshall, you guys shuttin' down in feather now?
Something like that... :insane:
C150J
Well-Known Member
This seems to be a "who's more of a man" argument. It's all relative and inconsquential unless you're compensating for something.
You think flying single-pilot in hard IMC is tough? Try working undercover narcotics in an apartment complex where your backup is three blocks away. You think 121 CRM is a challenge? Try coordinating 12-LEO arrest/search warrant on a violent felon and then let me know how "tough" ANY flying job is. Give me a break! If you want to have street cred, you certainly came to the wrong profession.
I like guys on both sides of the argument for who they are as people, which is why I read this site everyday. But arguing over how tough (in a "command decision," life-or-death sense) any flying job is like arguing over Legos vs. Erector Sets.
I really hope I didn't step on any toes, but I needed to speak my mind on this, as it pops up every month. You all take your jobs seriously, which is all that matters.
You think flying single-pilot in hard IMC is tough? Try working undercover narcotics in an apartment complex where your backup is three blocks away. You think 121 CRM is a challenge? Try coordinating 12-LEO arrest/search warrant on a violent felon and then let me know how "tough" ANY flying job is. Give me a break! If you want to have street cred, you certainly came to the wrong profession.
I like guys on both sides of the argument for who they are as people, which is why I read this site everyday. But arguing over how tough (in a "command decision," life-or-death sense) any flying job is like arguing over Legos vs. Erector Sets.
I really hope I didn't step on any toes, but I needed to speak my mind on this, as it pops up every month. You all take your jobs seriously, which is all that matters.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
I attacked whom? If you're referring to the hurricane thread it was done to prove a point - he never landed in a hurricane and he knows it. Saying he wasn't very smart for doing it meant nothing - because he never did!
I've even posted PRO-freight (yet those posts went ignored...hmmm) and I still am a basher somehow. WTF?
(edit) Here's a recap:
"Freight pilots are respected in the industry and I know of a charter operator in florida that won't hire anyone without 135 freight experience. I'm sure they're not the only one. How long before you hit 1200 and you can start flying the line for your present company? Once that happens build some time and network your way into a charter operator that has turbine equipment (or go to a 135 outfit with turbines like ameriflight with the 1900's and merlins or Airnet with those lears) and network your way into a corporate gig."
"If you have 135.243(c) mins, apply and go to a freight company that has twins such as Airnet, Flight Expres, Central Air Southwest, etc. etc. "
"Get the multi in at a legal, safety minded, busy, career school. If you can't do that, go fly freight."
I sure sound like a freight basher!!
Maybe it's time for another freight-basher poster child?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Okay, I went a little overboard. Had a good conversation with jtrain about a lot of issues, and here's my main problem: I think the gun is pointed at the wrong people. If a mainline guy flying a 767 came on and said, "Yeah, I was dodging t-storms all night, had a full load of passengers in the back, and then we had to shoot an approach down to minimums" I seriously doubt that there would be a chorus of "So! You had an autopilot, so you don't really fly the thing!" Yet, change mainline to regional, and that's what we get....a lot. We had ONE guy say flying with the hand mic was over the top, and then we had a lot of regional guys saying it was do-able (myself included). Yet, we're all lumped in there together. It would be like one freight guy saying "Yeah, level 4s aren't that bad, I go through them all the time" and all the regional guys saying freight guys are risk taking cowboys.
I don't blame the low time guys. I woulda jumped at that opportunity, too. I blame management for lowering the bar instead of trying to attract quality experience to the airline. They see cost savings, I see CA workload increasing.
Yeah, Marsh. I'll say we a lot of the flying we do is cushy, but there are those times that it's not so easy. You don't have an engine failure in IMC every flight, either, do you? BOTH regional and freight have their issues, and they just happen to be very different issues. The freight guys have to deal with older airplanes with known issues and an FAA that doesn't care too much. The regional guys have to deal with TSA that tries to meddle TOO much and management that doesn't give a damn. Does any of that have any bearing on what kind of pilot either is? No. You can take a 1200 hour CFI, toss him at a freight outfit, and he's either gonna be just as good or bad a pilot as he would be at a regional. It's not the industries or the company, it's the individuals. We've got guys here that have no business flying 121 airplanes, just like I'm sure there are guys in the 135 world that don't really belong. Is it the regional guy's fault that the airplanes flown by freight companies are showing wear and tear? Is it the freight guy's fault that management is looking to outsource flying again?
We're on the same damn team. We're all pilots. I know there's a lot of bad blood between the two sides, but which works better? Saying "YGTBSM, you don't wanna use a hand mic? You're serious?" or "Man, the other night I had (insert seriously wicked freight scenario here). How often does that happen in the RJ?" One is an outright attack, the other is more of an attempt to get the other side to see your side of the story. What I've seen a LOT of lately is out right attacks on RJ guys, so forgive me for stepping up to defend myself. If I had made comments (even in jest) about freight guys, I would expect the same. In fact, I've seen the same in the past. We're not the only ones easy to get riled up.
I don't blame the low time guys. I woulda jumped at that opportunity, too. I blame management for lowering the bar instead of trying to attract quality experience to the airline. They see cost savings, I see CA workload increasing.
Yeah, Marsh. I'll say we a lot of the flying we do is cushy, but there are those times that it's not so easy. You don't have an engine failure in IMC every flight, either, do you? BOTH regional and freight have their issues, and they just happen to be very different issues. The freight guys have to deal with older airplanes with known issues and an FAA that doesn't care too much. The regional guys have to deal with TSA that tries to meddle TOO much and management that doesn't give a damn. Does any of that have any bearing on what kind of pilot either is? No. You can take a 1200 hour CFI, toss him at a freight outfit, and he's either gonna be just as good or bad a pilot as he would be at a regional. It's not the industries or the company, it's the individuals. We've got guys here that have no business flying 121 airplanes, just like I'm sure there are guys in the 135 world that don't really belong. Is it the regional guy's fault that the airplanes flown by freight companies are showing wear and tear? Is it the freight guy's fault that management is looking to outsource flying again?
We're on the same damn team. We're all pilots. I know there's a lot of bad blood between the two sides, but which works better? Saying "YGTBSM, you don't wanna use a hand mic? You're serious?" or "Man, the other night I had (insert seriously wicked freight scenario here). How often does that happen in the RJ?" One is an outright attack, the other is more of an attempt to get the other side to see your side of the story. What I've seen a LOT of lately is out right attacks on RJ guys, so forgive me for stepping up to defend myself. If I had made comments (even in jest) about freight guys, I would expect the same. In fact, I've seen the same in the past. We're not the only ones easy to get riled up.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Boeing>Airbus>Embraer>Canadair...PC>MAC...Marines>Navy...UofM>OSU...Corporate>regional+freight...
Debating is fun until the gloves come off.
You got that all right except for the PC/MAC thing, Steve
pavelump
Well-Known Member
See what you've started?!?
If you get the QC2, I'd be interested in hearing your impression of it. I'm wearing the DC 10-60 and that tends to get a bit clampy after going ORD-SPI-ORD-MKE-ORD-MKE-ORD-MLI...
Anyway, we should be able to wear them at SKYW; it was covered in the last quarterly bulletin.
ZWflyer
Well-Known Member
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
