Head of FAA says changes "not necessary"

[WalterSobchak]

Of course the FAA will say changes aren't necessary because who would have to admit flaw in the current system?

 

[jynxyjoe]

Of course the FAA will say changes aren't necessary because who would have to admit flaw in the current system?

It also sets up the curious point a lot of pilots in the crewroom have asked... If the ATA and everyone in the industry head to toe says regionals are just as safe as majors, why would the language target mostly regionals?

 

[Trip7]

Man i just read this after posting in the 1500 thread. Like i said before, the idea of that rule passing is COMICAL. There's no way in hell it will pass with or without Mr. Babbit's blessing. We are MUCH closer to ab intio than some silly 1500 rule for FOs.

Just not realistic. In a couple years there would be absolutely NO qualifed pilots with that rule. None, zip, nada.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

I don't know why you seem so hell bent on hiring low time guys Trip7. It really makes no sense. It is a lot easier to argue for higher wages when everyone has a certain minimum experience set (with only hours as the metric I realize).

If this rule were to have been in place when I applied, I wouldn't have gotten a call.... but you know what, that's alright. I would have found a way to meet the higher minimum.

 

[granlistillo]

Just not realistic. In a couple years there would be absolutely NO qualifed pilots with that rule. None, zip, nada.

Dude this is absolutely wrong. Step back and think about this for a minute. Until the abberation of '07, 1000 was considered the defacto mins, and most had more. Not trying to verbally spar with you, but what do you base this wild, nay ridiculous claim???

In '07 for every 250 hr wonder that got hired, there were 10 250 hr guys that got sent home in the interview. Also there were people with ATPs that were sent packing, when they could pass the sim eval and the 250 hr guy did. And I am talking from personal experience here.

 

[meritflyer]

It is a lot easier to argue for higher wages when everyone has a certain minimum experience set (with only hours as the metric I realize).

There's no leverage gained from a high(er) time person from a bargaining perspective, in my opinion.

 

[Cptnchia]

You guys are missing it. He's saying that CONGRESSIONAL mandates are not necessary. He doesn't want the FAA's hands tied to political pandering. After all, it was congressional mandates that gave us the TSA, and we've seen how that has worked out.

 

[Nick]

You guys are missing it. He's saying that CONGRESSIONAL mandates are not necessary. He doesn't want the FAA's hands tied to political pandering. After all, it was congressional mandates that gave us the TSA, and we've seen how that has worked out.

I know just what you mean, but I don't really care if Randy Babbitt thinks congressional mandates are not necessary.

At what point in the past did the FAA change the rules regarding rest and qualifications for the better?

They cannot be trusted. I can't simply assume that Randy Babbitt will be any different from his predecessors and so I'd rather have congress force something on them as long as it is reasonable. This, so far, looks reasonable.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Man i just read this after posting in the 1500 thread. Like i said before, the idea of that rule passing is COMICAL. There's no way in hell it will pass with or without Mr. Babbit's blessing. We are MUCH closer to ab intio than some silly 1500 rule for FOs.

Just not realistic. In a couple years there would be absolutely NO qualifed pilots with that rule. None, zip, nada.

[YT]V3y3QoFnqZc[/YT]

EDIT: I gotta fix everything around here? ....MikeD

 

[granlistillo]

You guys are missing it. He's saying that CONGRESSIONAL mandates are not necessary. He doesn't want the FAA's hands tied to political pandering. After all, it was congressional mandates that gave us the TSA, and we've seen how that has worked out.

No he is against the 1500 hr requirement period.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

There's no leverage gained from a high(er) time person from a bargaining perspective, in my opinion.

Well, I think the leverage can be gained in stating that it's not an entry-level job. If it wasn't your first job, it shouldn't be paid at "first job" or less wages.

I have personally always thought that the minimum an airline pilot should make FIRST year, is $40,000 as a First Officer. I'd like to see more, but that should be the floor, and nothing less. I don't care how much or how little automation there is, if you GIGO the automation, you can still kill someone.

My friend with a comp sci degree, working on non-safety sensitive programs, no lives at stake, made $40 grand his first year out of college. He also had no flight school debt. He took about 2.5 years at that company to land a job with Verisign making double that.

Meanwhile, I switched from an entry-level IT job paying $36,000 a year or so, where if I screwed up, we'd have productivity issues, to a job making half of that ($18,657 pre tax first year at guarantee; PS I've flown 200 hours so far in 2009), with 50 lives jointly in my and the Captain's hands.

Yes, I took the job, I knew what I was getting into pay-wise, and I made adjustments.... BUT, the minimum pay NEEDS to change for the next guy coming up the pipe. If I could secure improvements in my contract that would get the next new hire $40 grand a year to start, I would sign off on that in a heartbeat. I'm not going to quit; I'm here until I've made positive change.... either we put a bottom-feeder out of business or we get a decent working environment, it's Phil's choice.

PS jnxyjoe that is awesome to play with a second delay between each clip. heheh

 

[meritflyer]

If you want to make money, go into sales not playing with planes.

First year sales rep at my company? $150K.

 

[Polar742]

Please stop confusing requiring a higher level of qualification for an airliner cockpit with bargaining.

One does not necessarily relate to another. Otherwise, at companies like mine (I was the low timer at 6k as a FNG), we'd all be making mint.

Your compensation and work rules are merely based on what you can negotiate. Flying skills in the cockpit don't necessarily make great management skills (You can google all of the super-successful professional pilots cum CEOs at the majors to prove this).

The ability to negotiate vs. the ability to do a V1 cut are not directly related.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Please stop confusing requiring a higher level of qualification for an airliner cockpit with bargaining.

One does not necessarily relate to another. Otherwise, at companies like mine (I was the low timer at 6k as a FNG), we'd all be making mint.

Your compensation and work rules are merely based on what you can negotiate. Flying skills in the cockpit don't necessarily make great management skills (You can google all of the super-successful professional pilots cum CEOs at the majors to prove this).

The ability to negotiate vs. the ability to do a V1 cut are not directly related.

I only want to establish a base pay rate...

What incentive does management really have paying a guy with 250 hours $40,000 for his year one work when there are "10 other 250 hour wonders" in the wings waiting to take his place.

And yes, if I want to make money, go into sales. I didn't get into my career to become rich, I got into it to make a decent middle class living. My dad has been working since the 80s and his take home after taxes is a few dollars shy of $100,000..... I would be happy with that, but if I can get more, I'd like that too.

 

[Zero1Niner]

I know just what you mean, but I don't really care if Randy Babbitt thinks congressional mandates are not necessary.

At what point in the past did the FAA change the rules regarding rest and qualifications for the better?

They cannot be trusted. I can't simply assume that Randy Babbitt will be any different from his predecessors and so I'd rather have congress force something on them as long as it is reasonable. This, so far, looks reasonable.

I think its a HUGE mistake to support anything that puts congressional hands in the cookie jar. I would rather take my chances that Babbitt MAY in fact different from his predecessors than to allow a new precedent to be set of congress meddling in yet another thing they dont fully understand.

Thats the LAST thing this industry needs. Once it starts, there is no telling how insane their control will get. Seems pretty short sighted to me to support this type of thing.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I only want to establish a base pay rate...

What incentive does management really have paying a guy with 250 hours $40,000 for his year one work when there are "10 other 250 hour wonders" in the wings waiting to take his place.

And yes, if I want to make money, go into sales. I didn't get into my career to become rich, I got into it to make a decent middle class living. My dad has been working since the 80s and his take home after taxes is a few dollars shy of $100,000..... I would be happy with that, but if I can get more, I'd like that too.

Do you listen to rage against the machine while in uniform?

Anyway, as far as being rich, you don't have to make a lot to have a lot. Please read my new book. Why do my embeds keep disappearing?

http://www.hulu.com/watch/1389/saturday-night-live-dont-buy-stuff

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Do you listen to rage against the machine while in uniform?

No, but if I did, I'd do it in the crew room out of view of the public.

I don't have a backpack, my hair is cropped and untouched by styling gel, and I never wear earbuds with any sort of entertainment device like an iPod when I'm in view of the public. Not only does it look weird, but its also against the company uniform policy set forth in our FOM.

Anyway, as far as being rich, you don't have to make a lot to have a lot.

Curious as to what you mean by this line. I just said I'd like to be able to make $100,000 so I could afford the things one should be able to afford at that pay rate. I'm not looking for a Bugatti or a 16,000 sq. foot house.

 

[jynxyjoe]

No, but if I did, I'd do it in the crew room out of view of the public.

I don't have a backpack, my hair is cropped and untouched by styling gel, and I never wear earbuds with any sort of entertainment device like an iPod when I'm in view of the public. Not only does it look weird, but its also against the company uniform policy set forth in our FOM.



Curious as to what you mean by this line. I just said I'd like to be able to make $100,000 so I could afford the things one should be able to afford at that pay rate. I'm not looking for a Bugatti or a 16,000 sq. foot house.

Ohh, jeesh man, I'm sorry. Wasn't looking to smash anyone. I guess I just think its funny when guys in white collars have punk and anti-authority band logo's on their flight cases and stuff. (like hippies turned CEO's) I hope you don't take offense. It'd be like when I have a "I have SJS" on my flight case and walk into my turboprop. I wasn't trying to play Velo.

Also, I just saw that on hulu and thought it was a good time to post it up. Not knocking ur personal finances

 

[Polar742]

What incentive does management really have paying a guy with 250 hours $40,000 for his year one work when there are "10 other 250 hour wonders" in the wings waiting to take his place.

They don't have incentive.

Let's postulate what that phrase will say should what ever requirements are set. We'll even use the 1500 hour requirement.

What incentive does management really have paying a guy with 1500 hours $40,000 for his year one work when there are "10 other guys with 1500" in the wings waiting to take his place.

I'm not singling you out, but this seems to be the myopic view of most posters on here.

Thus history has shown time and time again that there will not be a shortage of qualified pilots, unless there is a paradigm shift in the industry (the jet age and the RJs).

Best work on negotiation skills in primary training too....

Carry on...:beer:

 

[SpiceWeasel]

They don't have incentive.

Let's postulate what that phrase will say should what ever requirements are set. We'll even use the 1500 hour requirement.



I'm not singling you out, but this seems to be the myopic view of most posters on here.

Thus history has shown time and time again that there will not be a shortage of qualified pilots, unless there is a paradigm shift in the industry (the jet age and the RJs).

Best work on negotiation skills in primary training too....

Carry on...:beer:

Well, it's a good thing I'm not a negotiator lol. I definitely think that low timers are worth the $40,000 starting.... like my friend out of college, I don't think any entry level job in a professional industry should pay less than that.

I guess that's a bit better. :dunno: