Gulfstream Accident 12/15/2021 Santo Domingo to Orlando Fatal 9

Speed relatively constant and massive altitude variation?

What would cause that?
Automation failure?
Indication Failure?
 
DropTank said:
Speed relatively constant and massive altitude variation?

What would cause that?
Automation failure?
Indication Failure?
Click to expand...
Gust lock engaged while powering on.
When you disengage, residual pressure keeps them locked.
Proper procedure is to disengage prior to start the engines...
That was the rumor I heard :rolleyes:
Happened before.
Check lists have a raison d'être.

www.ainonline.com

NTSB Faults Pilot Compliance, Gust Lock in GIV Crash | AIN

NTSB is issuing a safety alert on pilot compliance and calling on FAA to mandate modification of the gust lock system on Gulfstream GIVs.
www.ainonline.com www.ainonline.com
 
Last edited:
Boris Badenov said:
Well, the thing was registered in the DR, maybe the tape holding the wings on caught fire.

I'll just get me coat...
Click to expand...
Prior to 2016 is was managed by Solarius roughly since new.

It's a super-weird metric, but I give Helidosa some esteem because all of their marketing collateral appears to be photos of their own fleet (and not just random stuff pulled off SlavicStockImages.com). Like it appears they might be a coherent, actual aviation-in-their-blood organization that didn't cheap-out at least in that regard. (or the owner is the DR version of Muskman and prohibits some industry-standard safety practices because he thinks yellow is an unaesthetic color, or w/e)
 
melax said:
Gust lock engaged while powering on.
When you disengage, residual pressure keeps them locked.
Proper procedure is to disengage prior to start the engines...
That was the rumor I heard :rolleyes:
Happened before.
Check lists have a raison d'être.

www.ainonline.com

NTSB Faults Pilot Compliance, Gust Lock in GIV Crash | AIN

NTSB is issuing a safety alert on pilot compliance and calling on FAA to mandate modification of the gust lock system on Gulfstream GIVs.
www.ainonline.com www.ainonline.com
Click to expand...
The gust lock on a G-IV will "lock" the elevators in a decidedly pitch down position making it very difficult to take off, and that's only if the "lock" is failed on the power levers as well. Not to mention the ailerons and rudder. Gust locks have killed Gulfstreams but this doesn't fit that mold, something else happened IMHO.
 
If the photos are correct, while a possible hydraulic failure of some sort may have occurred, it was definitely not a full loss of pressure. The ground spoilers/spoilers require a functioning system to be deployed. If there is a loss of fluid pressure, they will float slightly above stowed position. Some kind of a switch/electrical problem which was affecting hydraulic systems seems probable.
 
melax said:
Gust lock engaged while powering on.
When you disengage, residual pressure keeps them locked.
Proper procedure is to disengage prior to start the engines...
That was the rumor I heard :rolleyes:
Happened before.
Check lists have a raison d'être.

www.ainonline.com

NTSB Faults Pilot Compliance, Gust Lock in GIV Crash | AIN

NTSB is issuing a safety alert on pilot compliance and calling on FAA to mandate modification of the gust lock system on Gulfstream GIVs.
www.ainonline.com www.ainonline.com
Click to expand...
The gust lock also inhibits adding full power. How did they get airborne in the first place?
 
Minuteman said:
View attachment 62326
Click to expand...
I saw video taken by a mobile phone pointed at a security camera monitor replaying video that appeared to correlate with the ADS-B plan view. It looked like the aircraft crossed near the runway threshold/clearway, but was not aligned and crashed into an area with trees. They were close.

1639785831595.png
 
QXDX said:
The gust lock also inhibits adding full power. How did they get airborne in the first place?
Click to expand...
Maybe because it was improperly disengaged ?
Excerpt from the NTSB;

" During the post-accident investigation, Gulfstream discovered that the gust lock system, “while limiting movement when engaged, did not achieve its stated six-degree throttle movement limitation.” A subsequent investigation of gust lock systems on nine GIVs revealed that none met the design intent and each demonstrated 18- to 23-degree throttle movement (three to four times the design intent). "


So a certain amount of power could be applied but enough pressure on the gust lock remained, thus impeding the proper movement of surfaces. Post MA crash, there was a lot written about this. I didn't get a chance to read about it. As soon as I can I will do so.
 
Last edited:
knot4u said:
The gust lock on a G-IV will "lock" the elevators in a decidedly pitch down position making it very difficult to take off, and that's only if the "lock" is failed on the power levers as well. Not to mention the ailerons and rudder. Gust locks have killed Gulfstreams but this doesn't fit that mold, something else happened IMHO. :sarcasm:
Click to expand...
FIFY
 
melax said:
Maybe because it was disengaged ?
Excerpt from the NTSB;

" During the post-accident investigation, Gulfstream discovered that the gust lock system, “while limiting movement when engaged, did not achieve its stated six-degree throttle movement limitation.” A subsequent investigation of gust lock systems on nine GIVs revealed that none met the design intent and each demonstrated 18- to 23-degree throttle movement (three to four times the design intent). "


So a certain power could be applied but enough pressure on the lock remained, thus impeding the proper movement of surfaces. Post MA crash, there was a lot written about this. I didn't get a chance to read about it. As soon as i can I will do so.
Click to expand...
As a result of the Bedford accident there's an inspection that has to be performed with regards to the gust lock. A protractor (special tool from Gulfstream) will be installed between the power levers to measure how much travel exists with the gust lock set is part of it. I've done that functional test plenty of times after the AD that required a rework of the gust lock system and none have failed. I wonder if the AD was complied with and whether or not whoever was taking care of the airplane has the protractor?
 
melax said:
Gust lock engaged while powering on.
When you disengage, residual pressure keeps them locked.
Proper procedure is to disengage prior to start the engines...
That was the rumor I heard :rolleyes:
Happened before.
Check lists have a raison d'être.

www.ainonline.com

NTSB Faults Pilot Compliance, Gust Lock in GIV Crash | AIN

NTSB is issuing a safety alert on pilot compliance and calling on FAA to mandate modification of the gust lock system on Gulfstream GIVs.
www.ainonline.com www.ainonline.com
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, there was evidence that they didn't use any checklists for the previous 15 flights, too.
 
Minuteman said:
I saw video taken by a mobile phone pointed at a security camera monitor replaying video that appeared to correlate with the ADS-B plan view. It looked like the aircraft crossed near the runway threshold/clearway, but was not aligned and crashed into an area with trees. They were close.
Click to expand...

Any chance you have a link to said vids?
 
DropTank said:
If I recall correctly, there was evidence that they didn't use any checklists for the previous 15 flights, too.
Click to expand...
I was a lot more than 15 I just can't even remotely understand it.

" The NTSB is issuing a safety alert to underscore the importance of following checklist procedures and is asking NBAA to analyze data to determine the extent of procedural noncompliance in business aviation after the investigation into the crash of a Gulfstream IV on May 31 last year revealed that the pilots did not verbalize any checklist before the accident flight and that a flight control check had not been completed on 98 percent of the previous 175 flights in the airplane. "
That's 171 out of 175 !!!

www.ainonline.com

NTSB Faults Pilot Compliance, Gust Lock in GIV Crash | AIN

NTSB is issuing a safety alert on pilot compliance and calling on FAA to mandate modification of the gust lock system on Gulfstream GIVs.
www.ainonline.com www.ainonline.com

 
By default, no I don't believe in RIP after death. But I'd like to think someone has to try and be a special kind of ass before they lose the courtesy of dignity or privacy of their final moments.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top