Guess they didn't learn the first time.. Delta's new KSEA-PAJN run.

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ppragman said:
That's the thing - things pile up every day.

Edit: I also know the 1900 pretty damn good, I'm single pilot typed in the thing and have flown it up North too. The facilities available just scanning the AirNav description at KRKD blow away what is available at PFCB, PAKA, AK40, and many others. By the way, those are all places 1900s go to.
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z987k said:
We(the collective we) fly beech 1900s into these same airports. I fly a slightly shorter version of a 1900 into gravel airports with slopes and terrain we can't out climb.
If RKD doesn't have good facilities for a 1900, AKP on a whole other level of no facilities.
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Just because you can take the plane in there, is it safe to?
 
Boris Badenov said:
I'll check in with you in about 30 years. My suspicion is that if I haven't been shot by a jealous spouse or you haven't been "disappeared" for being a Union rabble-rouser, we'll both still be here sucking down air and being unpleasant on the Internet, and neither of us will have just suddenly forgotten that the plane stops flying when the needle goes too far to the left. I certainly hope so.
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Nah, the interwebz will all be automated by then. You old codgers will just be plugged in as vestigial devices peripherally observing the internet argue with itself.
 
I have Alaska time. I guarantee I can get a big jet in and out of ANC in much worse weather than the piston guys, too. :)

#becauseSPIFR
 
Seggy said:
Uh huh.



It isn't different. The threats can be the same! Flying is about minimizing threats! Airplanes fly the same for the most part, it is about minimizing threats!



Once again, why fly into that airport?



No, I love flying, think it is the best job in the world, and have a fun while at work. I just don't want to die doing my job.



Just because I like to minimize risk, doesn't mean what you do is different.
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If flying into an airport without an approach is considered risky enough that you might die doing it, you seriously need to step back and look at how you're flying.

We fly into that airport because it needs to be done and that's the job I signed up for. I agree that flying is about minimizing threats, we just have a lot more times that there are less of them that can be minimized.

Seggy said:
Just because you can take the plane in there, is it safe to?
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See, this is a great example of you not actually knowing everything. Weekly to daily 121 service in that same 1900 that you used to fly, but into airports that have none of the facilities you had at, well anywhere in the northeast.
 
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Seggy said:
Just because you can take the plane in there, is it safe to?
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Seggy said:
Just because it is legal does not make it safe.
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Of course you're right in this regard - but these airports are all well within the performance limitations of the aircraft, and can be done safely - but far more precautions have to be taken than if you were to fly between KPQI and KRKD. Again, that's our job. We go to these places because that's what we do - going there takes a different skill set than you'd need to fly between two IFR airports in the Lower 48. On top of that - someone has to do it - otherwise the people that live there don't eat, medicine and the mail can't fly in, and these folks would be left without anything.

If you want to really know why there are so many accidents up here - look at the causes for commercial accidents, the #1 of which has always been CFIT. Until guys stop disabling TAWS units, running underneath the clouds instead of IFR through them, and busting mins you'll continue to see CFITs up here. Those behaviors will continue until the infrastructure improves, because there's an economic incentive for companies and individuals to either blatantly cheat, or go VFR instead (because IFR doesn't help you any).
 
Seggy said:
Thank you.

So @Roger Roger, is it REALLY different up there? Other operators do it.
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Yes. It is. You keep refusing to listen to the guys who have time in both places so I'm not going to bother with trying to convince you. If you've got actual questions about what we do and how we do it feel free to ask but I'm done with whatever this is that you have going...some sort of need to prove to us that what we do isn't hard? Trying to convince us that you're a man because you flew 1900s for a craphole regional? Trying to tell us off because our definition of what is an acceptable level of risk doesn't match yours? I don't even know.
 
ppragman said:
Also, to bring up the "language difficulties" you mentioned earlier, while ATC speaks the language up here, there are plenty of villages where English is not the first language of the people giving runway reports, or the people you're picking up.
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What I loved was the variety of Village Radio. Some of those cackling old village biddies minding the comms and crackling over the airwaves were damned near unintelligible. Some of 'em though shoulda been paid ATC. Over time, you learned to suss out the voices and the broadcasts and looked forward to hearing 'em. Almost all of 'em belonged to the sweetest folks you'd like to meet.
 
Seggy said:
Just because you can take the plane in there, is it safe to?
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Hard to tell. Based on this thread, it seems like you'd be the person to ask. Perhaps it would be best for all of us if we started a petition for Seggy to be appointed FAA Administrator? And an Administrator who would take a much more "hand on" approach his duties. Like, I look forward to a future in which, when confronted with low ceilings, freezing rain, and a crosswind component nearing the demonstrated capabilities of the aircraft, I can pick up the phone and dial 1-800-ASK-SEGY so someone who has experienced everything in aviation can give me a straight, no-BS answer as to whether or not it's not only legal, but safe to get this dying child out of an uncontrolled 3,000 ft. strip in Bumscrew, Nowhere. I know my head would rest easier on the cool side of the pillow if I had that sort of God-like oversight. I'm not just on board, I'm positively enthusiastic. When do we start?
 
Boris Badenov said:
Hard to tell. Based on this thread, it seems like you'd be the person to ask. Perhaps it would be best for all of us if we started a petition for Seggy to be appointed FAA Administrator? And an Administrator who would take a much more "hand on" approach his duties. Like, I look forward to a future in which, when confronted with low ceilings, freezing rain, and a crosswind component nearing the demonstrated capabilities of the aircraft, I can pick up the phone and dial 1-800-ASK-SEGY so someone who has experienced everything in aviation can give me a straight, no-BS answer as to whether or not it's not only legal, but safe to get this dying child out of an uncontrolled 3,000 ft. strip in Bumscrew, Nowhere. I know my head would rest easier on the cool side of the pillow if I had that sort of God-like oversight. I'm not just on board, I'm positively enthusiastic. When do we start?
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Amen, brother! Somebody give me a Hallelujah!
 
Derg said:
You guys have convinced me.

I'm going to call Engineering and advise them that Juneau is so advanced and the barriers to entry into the market are so vast and onerous, that they should immediately cancel plans.

Like the message from the closing scene from "2010: Odyssey 2":

"ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT (JUNEAU) ATTEMPT NO LANDING"
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Ignoring the other side show...

This is not a Delta can't do it argument... this is people who are potential consumers of your service asking how is Delta going to be a viable option in this market.

After watching the years of development of Alaska's systen, is it not a valid question to ask how Delta expects to do the same in 5 month? And for such a short seasonal service where would such development fall on the scale of cost benefit analysis?

So I ask if this is anything more than a poke in the eye at Alaska? Or a real full fledged effort to compete on a equal footing.

Take is as Alaska arrogance or what have you.. but why should I spend my money for a ticket on your airline when I dont know if you can provide the same service?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
 
ppragman said:
Of course you're right in this regard - but these airports are all well within the performance limitations of the aircraft, and can be done safely - but far more precautions have to be taken than if you were to fly between KPQI and KRKD. Again, that's our job. We go to these places because that's what we do - going there takes a different skill set than you'd need to fly between two IFR airports in the Lower 48. On top of that - someone has to do it - otherwise the people that live there don't eat, medicine and the mail can't fly in, and these folks would be left without anything.
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What are these 'far more' precautions you need to worry about? Granted, you may need survival gear and food, but so do our crews going to Africa, India, and even Caracas. Once again, it is no harder to fly into an airport in Alaska in the 'bush' than taking an aircraft to a myriad of destinations in the lower 48 and south of the border.

If you want to really know why there are so many accidents up here - look at the causes for commercial accidents, the #1 of which has always been CFIT. Until guys stop disabling TAWS units, running underneath the clouds instead of IFR through them, and busting mins you'll continue to see CFITs up here. Those behaviors will continue until the infrastructure improves, because there's an economic incentive for companies and individuals to either blatantly cheat, or go VFR instead (because IFR doesn't help you any).
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Fair enough.
 
Roger Roger said:
Yes. It is. You keep refusing to listen to the guys who have time in both places so I'm not going to bother with trying to convince you.
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Do you think I feel people are listening to me?

If you've got actual questions about what we do and how we do it feel free to ask but I'm done with whatever this is that you have going...some sort of need to prove to us that what we do isn't hard?
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It is challenging, but so is flying into ASE. It is not mythical like some make it out to be.

Trying to convince us that you're a man because you flew 1900s for a craphole regional?
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Nope, I am secure in my manhood.

Trying to tell us off because our definition of what is an acceptable level of risk doesn't match yours? I don't even know.
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Flying into an airport you can't go around is not an acceptable level of risk.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Hard to tell. Based on this thread, it seems like you'd be the person to ask. Perhaps it would be best for all of us if we started a petition for Seggy to be appointed FAA Administrator? And an Administrator who would take a much more "hand on" approach his duties. Like, I look forward to a future in which, when confronted with low ceilings, freezing rain, and a crosswind component nearing the demonstrated capabilities of the aircraft, I can pick up the phone and dial 1-800-ASK-SEGY so someone who has experienced everything in aviation can give me a straight, no-BS answer as to whether or not it's not only legal, but safe to get this dying child out of an uncontrolled 3,000 ft. strip in Bumscrew, Nowhere. I know my head would rest easier on the cool side of the pillow if I had that sort of God-like oversight. I'm not just on board, I'm positively enthusiastic. When do we start?
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Don't they usually not say the age and specific circumstances of patients that need to be medevac-ed?

Regardless of that, look at the increased scrutiny of the Air Ambulance community from the NTSB. I wouldn't be so tongue and cheek.
 
Roger Roger said:
Do you say the same thing when the boss wants to move bags to the overhead bins to make weight and balance work?
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We are usually moving bags from the overheads to the cargo compartment and reflected on the weight and balance that way.
 
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