JaceTheAce
Well-Known Member
I love you Kathryn!!!
Great Letter to the Editor concerning the Airboat...
- Thread starter Seggy
- Start date
VATechPilot
Well-Known Member
Wow!
While Ms. Keene's feelings are understandable following such an admirable performance by a flight crew, they are emotions misplaced if she thinks appealing to the public will have any impact on the circumstances under which airline crews are employed or work.
Why ? Because your pay and/or working conditions are YOUR problem, not the public's. They couldn't possibly care less nor can I think of any reason why they should. What would one expect the public to do on your behalf...boycott the offending airline ? That'll be the day...
In fact, I think pilots look lame appealing to people who just don't care.
YOUR fight isn't THEIR fight. You are the one who needs to do what you consider necessary to improve your own circumstances. Quit, strike or any point on the spectrum between the two.
I walked the picket line with the EAL guys as their company circled the drain; we were INVISIBLE to the people who walked past on their way into the terminal.
Nothing has changed since then.
Why ? Because your pay and/or working conditions are YOUR problem, not the public's. They couldn't possibly care less nor can I think of any reason why they should. What would one expect the public to do on your behalf...boycott the offending airline ? That'll be the day...
In fact, I think pilots look lame appealing to people who just don't care.
YOUR fight isn't THEIR fight. You are the one who needs to do what you consider necessary to improve your own circumstances. Quit, strike or any point on the spectrum between the two.
I walked the picket line with the EAL guys as their company circled the drain; we were INVISIBLE to the people who walked past on their way into the terminal.
Nothing has changed since then.
Yup. Even "domestic" F/As are given basic ditching training.
At Eagle & AA I was trained in which doors/exits would be best to use in a ditching for each aircraft, the evacuation commands for ditching (not the same as a ground evacuation).
Our "overwater" F/As who did international received even more and in depth ditching training, including use of the rafts & very basic survival training. I never did international, so I never went through the overwater course, but I heard the raft training was a lot of fun
.
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
I think its incredibly naive for us to think that we should get the public involved so we can make more money. Thank God you all have THE UNION to help with this. Its a good thing that there's not so many people walking around out there willing to pay for a job or for that matter work at bottom feeding regionals (you know who you are) for less than the other guy all in the name of QUICK UPGRADE and MAJORS!!! Hahahaha!
On a side note-what job fields deserve to have the community at large rally around them for more money? Anyone? Anyone?
On a side note-what job fields deserve to have the community at large rally around them for more money? Anyone? Anyone?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I tend to agree. Appealing to the public is a useless endeavor. Picketing is more of an exercise in building pilot group unity. Only when the word "strike" is starting to get thrown around on the news close to an NMB release do passengers start to avoid that airline and hurt the company's bottom line. Until then, any appeals to the public fall on deaf ears.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Correct, in a direct manner of speaking. However, given the history of elected officials intervening in our fight, having public opinion behind a a job action is highly essential.
Why? Example: Pilots want to strive for more. They strike. The public understands this. A politician gets involved. Sufficient public sympathy will influence how a politician responds to the issue.
Job actions aren't won on the picket line- they're won at the negotiating table and on the Beltway. In either scenario you have to make the opposition see giving you what you want as safer than standing against you.
Pilots have direct access to the means which make an airline profitable. To keep a politician eyeballing his bottom line, you have to be indirect- through the official's constituents.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
I sincerely doubt that the public understands why pilots strike. In their mind we all make 6 figures and work 10-15 days/month. Even a second year regional F/O makes the same if not more than the average American wage earner.
Now, if a certain pilot group was considerably underpaid and as such attracted unqualified or subpar pilots, THEN the public would care. The thing is, I don't think there is any 121 airline that had multiple crashes due to pilot error and is still around today. Even Skybus, who everyone hated due to their ridiculous pay scale, had zero accidents in the year they were flying.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
The public understands- we want better wages and work rules. They didn't sympathize because in the past it was assumed we were very well compensated and lived easily. Not so much the truth, anymore. As such, educating the public is about dispelling the myth. In dispelling the myth, we find common ground with the average American wage earner. CEO pay and shareholder profits have lead to downsizing and outsourcing. More and more people in the airline business are losing jobs and more to corporate greed.
Most Americans can relate to that in some way. A labor battle is not an isolated incident- it's an event that's part of a greater trend in society. The public's sentiment won't be with a pilot group because they intimately understand the pilot mentality. They can't- they have no real common reference to the pilot world. The public's sentiment will be that if a safety critical, highly skilled wage laborer is so embattled now, how long before they face the same issues?
Aviation is a pricey commodity. Educating America as to what is happening here and now in our world shows them what to expect in the coming years in theirs. Letters such as the one in the original post demonstrate our issues in common with the public.
bunghole
Well-Known Member
I was hoping to read feedback today in regards to my supposed misperception of low priced airlines since I havent purchased in a whole three months. Seg? Dug? Care to elaborate how I have been duped by 'marketing savvy'? Examples? I would enjoy saving a buck or two just like any other 'bunghole'.
Thoughts related to the original post....
I find it very naive that the perception of paying more for goods and services relates to greater employee pay/benefits (including pensions). This battle is fought and won/loss at the labor/management table, not consumer habits as the original editorial excerpt alludes to.
Thoughts related to the original post....
I find it very naive that the perception of paying more for goods and services relates to greater employee pay/benefits (including pensions). This battle is fought and won/loss at the labor/management table, not consumer habits as the original editorial excerpt alludes to.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
They are not always the cheapest in the markets they serve. You think they are because of how their marketing strategy works.
bunghole
Well-Known Member
Okay....so if you were gonna purchase a ticket just like any other 'joe' from West to East coast as an example......what marketing strategy are you referring to that deceives the 'savy consumer'? I would like to understand this more. Not trying to be argumentative.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
www.iflyswa.com
See the crap they have on the main page. 'Low Fares' blah blah blah
People associate Southwest and low fares because of marketing.
See the crap they have on the main page. 'Low Fares' blah blah blah
People associate Southwest and low fares because of marketing.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
In SWA's defense they have generally been the lowest cost ticket. GM can market the hell out of their cars but that doesn't make them better than Toyota. Look at all the commercials for American cars vs. foreign. Toyota has a reputation for quality, and SWA has a reputation for low cost.
Also SWA is very "no hassle" oriented, something the traditional airlines are certainly not.
DPApilot
GUYSH! GUYSH! GUYSH!
You're 100 percent correct.
United even makes the pilots learn the doors, how to evacuate the cabin in an emergency, and they even have mock up cabins for ditching practice with life rafts and everything haha
DPApilot
GUYSH! GUYSH! GUYSH!
I bought a roundtrip ticket on UAL for 166 from ORD-DEN, a flight from MDW-DEN on SWA was 149 ONE WAY....
:tmyk:
bunghole
Well-Known Member
So do you believe that SWA and/or JB marketing practices are based on deception and not value? What is your position on their business model of being profitable and seemingly cohesive labor force vs. most of all domestic airlines that have been unprofitable and utilize a disgruntled/overworked/underpaid workforce?(as mentioned by the editorial you posted)
I gotta tell ya....flying on Jetblue vs Delta or American is like night and day as far a price/customer satisfaction/attitudes of employees. And yes...that is based on recent flights from West to East coast as well as Southwest to Northwest locations.
Your opinion is appreciated.
