good idea to fly with 777 captain?

[taseal]

damn!!! 17 grand? holy matzahballs

 

[intern_mike]

Okay back from instrument ground school. I've read all the posts and i appreciate all you guys that are just looking out for me. I think one of the problem here is the vagueness in which we are understanding each-other. Please read:

taken directly from FSA web site:

Advanced Airline Training Program Path

Your sights are set on becoming an airline pilot. The Advanced Airline Training Program is the most direct route to a position as a first officer with a regional airline. To be selected for this intensive, four-phase program, you must meet the minimum requirements and successfully complete the application process. If selected, you will begin the challenging four-phase program with an evaluation of your single-engine and multi-engine skills (Phases I and II) which must meet the Commercial Pilot Standards (note: phases I and II are not required for Academy CIME graduates). Once you meet those standards, you’ll interview with one of the participating airlines. If the interview is successful, you will be given a Conditional Offer of Employment (C.O.E.) allowing you to continue with the program. You will then undergo line operational experience at the ATP level in a Seminole aircraft (Phase III) followed by advanced systems training in the ERJ 145 Level “D” simulator (Phase IV). Upon successful completion of Phase IV, you will then proceed to Basic Indoctrination Training with your chosen airline.

This is not some 10 hour RJ course. This is an highly demanding 7 week course designed to get you on the level of a part 121 pilot. You are held to very high standards, and are not allowed to fail any aspect of the program. In addition to the RJ time, there are long x-country flights in the seminole, and a whole range of ground schools taught by retired airline pilots. They are very frank with the way things are, and with what is expected of you as a professional pilot. They give you the inside scoop so to speak. We are a 1/2 day behind in my instrument ground b/c we keep asking the instructor questions. This guy is like a 70 year old 747 captain. He is a wealth of knowledge. This is the environment FSA provides which is why I choose to do my training here. It keeps me hungry and poised to want to be the best pilot I can be. Unfortunately, that come with a high price.

 

[caliginousface]

Okay back from instrument ground school. I've read all the posts and i appreciate all you guys that are just looking out for me. I think one of the problem here is the vagueness in which we are understanding each-other. Please read:

taken directly from FSA web site:

Advanced Airline Training Program Path

Your sights are set on becoming an airline pilot. The Advanced Airline Training Program is the most direct route to a position as a first officer with a regional airline. To be selected for this intensive, four-phase program, you must meet the minimum requirements and successfully complete the application process. If selected, you will begin the challenging four-phase program with an evaluation of your single-engine and multi-engine skills (Phases I and II) which must meet the Commercial Pilot Standards (note: phases I and II are not required for Academy CIME graduates). Once you meet those standards, you’ll interview with one of the participating airlines. If the interview is successful, you will be given a Conditional Offer of Employment (C.O.E.) allowing you to continue with the program. You will then undergo line operational experience at the ATP level in a Seminole aircraft (Phase III) followed by advanced systems training in the ERJ 145 Level “D” simulator (Phase IV). Upon successful completion of Phase IV, you will then proceed to Basic Indoctrination Training with your chosen airline.

This is not some 10 hour RJ course. This is an highly demanding 7 week course designed to get you on the level of a part 121 pilot. You are held to very high standards, and are not allowed to fail any aspect of the program. In addition to the RJ time, there are long x-country flights in the seminole, and a whole range of ground schools taught by retired airline pilots. They are very frank with the way things are, and with what is expected of you as a professional pilot. They give you the inside scoop so to speak. We are a 1/2 day behind in my instrument ground b/c we keep asking the instructor questions. This guy is like a 70 year old 747 captain. He is a wealth of knowledge. This is the environment FSA provides which is why I choose to do my training here. It keeps me hungry and poised to want to be the best pilot I can be. Unfortunately, that come with a high price.

Hey man, you can re-read their trash all you want, we're just telling you what we think is best.

 

[intern_mike]

Hey man, you can re-read their trash all you want, we're just telling you what we think is best.

Not re-reading. My good friend just took his final check ride in the RJ sim today. I've followed his training VERY closely. It's just the way I described it.

 

[MDPilot]

Geez, they brainwash the FSA guys almost as much as the ERAU guys, don't they? :banghead:

 

[Seggy]

Okay back from instrument ground school. I've read all the posts and i appreciate all you guys that are just looking out for me. I think one of the problem here is the vagueness in which we are understanding each-other. Please read:

Sorry no vagueness, the FlightSafety program isn't the best thing since sliced bread in aviation. It really is a waste of time and money, sorry, no other way to say it.

Does it make you a bad person for going to it, no. I am sure you are a cool guy which we can get together and get beers after a day of flying on a trip. Just telling the truth.

taken directly from FSA web site:

Advanced Airline Training Program Path

Your sights are set on becoming an airline pilot. The Advanced Airline Training Program is the most direct route to a position as a first officer with a regional airline. To be selected for this intensive, four-phase program, you must meet the minimum requirements and successfully complete the application process. If selected, you will begin the challenging four-phase program with an evaluation of your single-engine and multi-engine skills (Phases I and II) which must meet the Commercial Pilot Standards (note: phases I and II are not required for Academy CIME graduates). Once you meet those standards, you’ll interview with one of the participating airlines. If the interview is successful, you will be given a Conditional Offer of Employment (C.O.E.) allowing you to continue with the program. You will then undergo line operational experience at the ATP level in a Seminole aircraft (Phase III) followed by advanced systems training in the ERJ 145 Level “D” simulator (Phase IV). Upon successful completion of Phase IV, you will then proceed to Basic Indoctrination Training with your chosen airline.

Marketing Bullcrap. You see the ads in 'Flying' Magazine that Flight Safety has with the HAL or Jetblue pilot smiling? You are not going to go to HAL or Jetblue after Flightsafety, just nice marketing pictures. Same thing up there, they have nice words to describe what you can get for free.

This is not some 10 hour RJ course. This is an highly demanding 7 week course designed to get you on the level of a part 121 pilot.

If you think that it takes seven weeks to 'get to the level' of a 121 pilot, I have some beach front property in Kansas to sell you. You BECOME a professional pilot. You take years upon years of learning to mold yourself to become a true professional. The day you stop molding yourself to be at the 'level of a part 121 pilot' is the day your retire.

You are held to very high standards, and are not allowed to fail any aspect of the program. In addition to the RJ time, there are long x-country flights in the seminole, and a whole range of ground schools taught by retired airline pilots. They are very frank with the way things are, and with what is expected of you as a professional pilot. They give you the inside scoop so to speak. We are a 1/2 day behind in my instrument ground b/c we keep asking the instructor questions. This guy is like a 70 year old 747 captain. He is a wealth of knowledge. This is the environment FSA provides which is why I choose to do my training here. It keeps me hungry and poised to want to be the best pilot I can be. Unfortunately, that come with a high price.

I held myself to a high standard in my training and now, in my day to day operations as a 121 captain. If you 'fail' on the line you can kill hunderds, if not thousands of people. Are you saying that the program is the ONLY training environment where you are held to high standards?

I'm sure this guy is a wealth of knowledge and is great, but Flightsafety is not the only place were guys like this exist.

Mike I am sure you are a cool guy. Might want to listen a little more though.

 

[BobDDuck]

Nobody doubts that FSI's program is intensive. I'm sure it teaches you all about the systems and basic profiles of an RJ. The question is WHY would you take it, especially at the cost.

Say you have 300 hours when you are ready for the program. Call this H day.You take it and get an additional 50 hours of actual flight time plus what ever you get in the sim (which may be useful, but you can't log as flight time). So now you've got 350 hours and are out 17K and it is H day + 4 months. You know the profiles and procedures for an RJ but you probably aren't any more of a pilot then you were 4 months ago.

Or, you could go get your CFI (spend MAYBE 10K) in about 2 months. Then instruct for 6 months or so until you reach mins where a company (ASA if you are deadset on going there) will take you with out the RJ program. Doing it this way you will have 500 hours or so probably only be out 5K to 7K (because you will have made money while CFIing) and be at H day + 8 months. Also you will have a few hundred hours of dual given and because of that be a hell of a lot better pilot then you were 8 months ago. Sure, you won't know any RJ procedures or systems, but you are going to learn all that in ground school anyways.

So the differences between the two? 4 months... $9,000... and either having RJ knowledge or having real world experience instructing.

 

[taz]

Didn't you read the thread about FO doesn't get to fly? why do you want to spend so much money and only sit on the right seat watching the CA fly? .

anyway, if you don't want to instruct, there are many other ways to get yourself into a regional. I know a guy who didn't get his CFI, found a job flying skydivers, got his 500TT with minimal multi time, hired by Mesa. granted it's mesa, but at least he didn't take out another loan for a RJ course.

I think the RJ course might cause more confusing once you're going to your airline's training. And when you get hired, don't be the guy asking your instructor "that's not how we were taught in the RJ class..." Primacy plays a big role when learning how to fly a jet. but you won't know that since you didn't learn that from CFI school.

In this industry, it's all about paying your dues. if you want to find a short cut, you will suffer later on.

 

[tonyw]

I just don't see why someone would be so anxious to throw away money to pay for training THAT HIS EMPLOYER SHOULD BE GIVING HIM.

And he should be collecting a paycheck when he's receiving that training from said employer.

It makes no sense.

 

[Cruise]

For myself, I'd be finishing with 250-300 flight hours. I got my private here so that would be everything. The success rate is 98%, and that carries through to the training you'll receive from the airline. It prepares you trust me. It will be your life until you finish. But you will have started a career as a well trained and more over competent pilot.

SWEET! I can't wait to fly with more 250-300 hour FO's.....what a blast that is. Hmmmmmm, don't think I get check airman rates when I fly w/ a 250 hour wonder......

Hold on, lemme go check......

*Enter Jeopardy thinkin' music*



Nope, no check airman override on my pay stub......but it sure does require 'check airman' work to fly w/ someone like that.

But hey, guess if you can get the job....you might as well stick it to the line captains you'll be flying with, they'll love it!!!!

 

[Qgar]

Not to mention the new FA's you'll have to babysit soon!

 

[MikeOH58]

InternMike, I think you should just stop posting in this thread...You started it supposively asking for advice...It was given...SIX PAGES WORTH! Now you don't like what people have said, and from what I gather, the only reason you continue to post is to try and justify your decision with the hope that maybe 1 or 2 people will agree with you. Enough is enough already...

reading this thread makes me want to freaking scream...

And with all due respect, i'm not impressed one bit about the marketing add you copy and pasted on the site....THATS NOTHIN....

I've got my good old pal Howgul Abul Arhu, from Nigeria (or was it south africa) who is promising me 25 million dollars in a private bank account if I help him move some money to Europe......:banghead::banghead::banghead:

But in all seriousness...You have made your decision, that is clear. If the only reason you continue to post in this thread is for justification, then save yourself and everyone else the trouble...You know where they stand in regards to your situation...

sigh

 

[Bumblebee]

It prepares you trust me. But you will have started a career as a well trained and more over competent pilot.

Why in the world should we trust you. You really don't know what you're talking about. You see the big shiny airplane in the window and refuse to acknowledge that it takes grit and perseverance to make yourself into a "well trained and competent pilot".
I have not seen one post from you where you said, "you know, after reading all of your perspectives on this, I'm going to do more research"

Nope, you just accuse us of hating on you because we won't let you ride your bicycle off the roof . .

You came on here asking if it would be a good idea to fly with your uncle, who knows this business. The problem was that you couldn't afford to go for a ride with him because of the cost of this program.

We said fly with him, and look into other options, maybe ask him about it. You should at least buy him dinner and ask him.

Maybe you'll listen to him.

:banghead:

 

[Bumblebee]

Not to mention the new FA's you'll have to babysit soon!

They're getting FA's???

 

[Cruise]

SWEET! I can't wait to fly with more 250-300 hour FO's.....what a blast that is. Hmmmmmm, don't think I get check airman rates when I fly w/ a 250 hour wonder......

Hold on, lemme go check......

*Enter Jeopardy thinkin' music*



Nope, no check airman override on my pay stub......but it sure does require 'check airman' work to fly w/ someone like that.

But hey, guess if you can get the job....you might as well stick it to the line captains you'll be flying with, they'll love it!!!!

Not to mention the new FA's you'll have to babysit soon!

They're getting FA's???

Yeah, we have FA's too! 250 hour wonders and newbie FA's.......Yahoo, we have all the goodness locked up inside our little tubes!

Hehe...just bustin' ya WC. Hope to see you on the line soon!

 

[Nick]

Not re-reading. My good friend just took his final check ride in the RJ sim today. I've followed his training VERY closely. It's just the way I described it.

1) You asked a question.
2) Fifty people said "don't bother doing it" and spent their free time describing at length, why you shouldnt.
3) Denial.


I'd hate to have met my captain on this trip two days ago and in chatting with him on the first leg while passengers are boarding he asks, "what'd you do before this?" I paid seventeen thousand dollars and took a course on how fly a E/CRJ.

I can only assume he'd be thinking, "why?" but would politely come up with a question about it or something constructive.

No CFI-ing? I'd have no fun stories to tell! I would have no recollections of carefully watching my student fly an approach to minimums at night...of hundreds upon hundreds of hours flying low over the scenery and taking in the view. I guarantee if you utter the words "the way we did it in the RJ course" once, it'll sound like "this one time...at band camp" and they will roll their eyes.

In groundschool, the airlines are required, by federal regulations, to teach you everything that is important. If the RJ course was free, then definitely do it. But I'd make the cutoff mark literally $100 or so. If you can't get a seven week RJ course for a hundred bucks, then don't do it.

 

[Qgar]

:yup: HA! You'd better be nice to me, Captain, or else I'm not gonna fetch ya that soda you ask for!

 

[mhcasey]

You dropped out of college with one year to go so you could come take a dump on the airline industry? I don't want to be a jerk here, but seriously man, do you see how it is literally insulting to the rest of us? God I can't wait to get to a regional so I can be FO to guys like you just because you got there sooner.

On second thought, I'll see you guys in the military and freight dawg forums...

Mike, if you wise up and listen we'll all be more than happy to help out, but this is getting unbelievable.

 

[Flybob37]

Hey
When it comes to airplanes and the business I'm a newbie. Almost 200 hours in a Cherokee, working on getting my IFR ticket (just studying on my own like crazy...trying to do it as cheaply as possible). After that maybe I'll see what else there is to do in aviation. But, I'm old. 47 years old. I started flying because I've always wanted to. And I love it. I have a career I've been in since 1982. I make decent money compared to most. But it would be hard to start out making $23,000 a year for awhile. But, I digress. My best friend is a Captain at Southwest and he makes $300,000 a year. That's some serious change. Nice lifestyle. People have always looked up to airline pilots. I bet this kid does too. The fact that the underbelly of the BUSINESS has changed dramatically and standards have eroded tremendously is NOT common knowledge to the non-aviation world. And he doesn't understand that either. He thinks it's a good idea if he can get hired by an airline after 250TT hours. "Buying" your way into an airline job is becoming more common and will only continue to grow as it gets harder and harder to fill positions. A kid like the one who posted on here is in an awkward "tweener" situation. He sees the 777 captain and his lifestyle, yet wants to be there after 9 months of training. AND he's told that it can happen...by the people cashing the checks. This kid is simply looking for the easiest (and he thinks quickest) way to make that happen. If the industry continues this way, he will never get to the lifestyle he thinks he's going to get. More importantly, he doesn't get it when the grizzled vets talk about the love of flying pipelines, or flying low over a river, etc. That's because he doesn't love flying. He loves the idea of being an airline pilot. And damn all who try to stop him from getting there by simply writing some checks. Sorry guys, you will continue to be frustrated by people like him. Meanwhile, I'm going to get back to reading my new Rod Machado IFR book.....

 

[Bumblebee]

Hey
I'm old. 47 years old. .

I've only got two months b4 I'm old 2